Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?

Yeah, I’m in the same boat with Allah, Buddha, Brahma, Zeus and the Tooth Fairy.

I’m not a scientist, so I wouldn’t presume to try to any level of detail, when we have several scientists on this thread who can explain it perfectly well.I am, however, a reasonably intelligent chap, and a fan of Frasier, and one of the many lines I really enjoy is one uttered by one of Frasier’s guests at a cocktail party he threw:

Had you done that in any age other than the modern one you would have been tortured and then burnt at the stake as a heretic. Dangerous business disagreeing with the pope. God's representative on earth and all.Isn't it amazing what secular institutions can achieve?And btw, you're doing no more than all religious believers do - pick 'n mix, cafeteria beliefs. You're still making it up.

Here's some mathematical brilliancy from PaulK. This quote is from the thread "Do you really understand the mathematics of evolution" Message 237: I don't expect the mathematically incompetent to understand the mathematics of evolution. Perhaps if we get a high school student to tutor you PaulK, you might make some progress.

Oh, look Kleinman is spouting nonsense again.

Very impressive source for your wisdom. Too bad you aren't a reasonably intelligent enough chap to understand high school level mathematics. Otherwise, you would smell the crap from this notion that you evolved from some simple replicator that spontaneously occurred in some mythical primordial soup.And where are these mythical scientists? PaulK? You have to be kidding. Taq started a little bit of debate and got the 3e9 replications for each beneficial mutation right but then bailed out. You should try to expand your philosophical foundation beyond silly American sitcoms.

PaulK is now going to explain the mathematics of evolution. Not! Hey PaulK, why don't you write a book explaining DNA phylogenetics? You could show how you are descended from bananas.

Oh the sources of my wisdom are far wider than sitcoms. I listen, read and learn. I am a sceptic, but not a cynic - a respecter of differing opinions, where the holders of those opinions are themselves respectful and receptive.Frasier is simply one of many sources of entertainment and laughter in my life.You are another.

Do you think it is disrespectful if someone says your opinion is wrong and then shows you why? This is a thread about teaching evolution and religion in school. My argument is that the fish evolves into mammals clique does not teach evolution, they teach a mythological interpretation of the phenomenon. And it doesn't amuse me at all because I have to deal with drug-resistant infections. Biological evolution is not that difficult to understand if you are willing to let go of your preconceived notions about the phenomenon. When you do, it becomes obvious why it takes a billion replications for each evolutionary transitional step. Hmmm

Trying to occupy the moral high ground now eh ?In that case, pray tell, why are you wasting your time on here, rather than persuading the scientific community, the drug companies and governments of your genius and the ignorance of 99+% of the scientific community ? I mean, come on, it would surely do more for the health of your patients with drug-resistant infections, wouldn’t it ?Unless, of course, there was some reason why not ?

It's easy with you and your understanding of good and evil. I'm just putting the blame on this one where it belongs. You got me on that one. I have an ulterior motive. When it became clear that I got the mathematics for Markov chain DNA evolution correct, I don't have any problem explaining the math or the results you get from the math. The Kishony experiment clearly shows this mathematical behavior. So, when I got to the "conclusion" portion of the paper, I hit writer's block and couldn't see how to write the conclusion. That's when I decided to start this discussion here and it worked perfectly. PaulK's posts on DNA phylogenetics were particularly helpful. It became quite clear how to write a conclusion. You see, I respect the opinions of the fish evolves into mammals cliques, even if it is wrong. I'll soon be submitting this paper for peer-review and publication. The only thing remaining is the data for the Kishony experiment if he were to use 2 drugs (or the step increase in drug-concentrations requires two mutations) instead of one. Markov chain calculations can be very computation-intensive (lots of matrix multiplications). For the mutation rate of 1e-9, that calculation takes over 100 trillion transitions and my computer can only do about 1.5 trillion transitions/day. That solution is nicely converging on the solution I obtained using the "at least one rule" in my previous publication on the subject. It's always nice to see that you get consistent results using different mathematical approaches to the same physical problem and those results correlate correctly with the experiment.

And there you go again, you ego-filled poster child for hubris - desperately trying to impress anyone with your supposed genius.I’m not one of the people you need to persuade. This forum isn’t the community you need to persuade. Persuade the wider scientific community that evolution is wrong, and you’ll persuade me. Until then, I’ll stay rational and listen to that wider scientific community.

vimesey is no farmer but apparently has lost his sense of smell when he can't smell the manure piled right under his nose by that wider scientific community. That's why he's part of the problem of drug-resistant infections and failed cancer treatments. The English education system has really gone downhill since the time of Newton and Darwin.

If the choice is between us and some imaginary spook, I'll take us.Edited by ringo, : No reason given.

Why are you here Kleinman? I write scientific papers for scientific publications - nothing to do with what we discuss here - the very last thing I would do is take my reseach to a place like this.You're a no-hope crank aren't you? Can't get heard where you should get heard so you come to places like this and troll?Oddly, there are people here that could help you - obviously you have some training and ability but equally obviously you've lost your way. If you actually listened to your critics you might make some headway.Don't bother replying.