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Author | Topic: What have we accomplished? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kleinman Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Tangle writes:
And your kind does? Where are the fish evolves to mammals kind scientific explanations of the Kishony and Lenski evolutionary experiments? I don't think you and your kind properly understand science. Well actually I know you don't. You won't give it because your pseudo-scientific beliefs only self serve your atheism. You have chosen the wrong faith and it blinds you to the physical and mathematical facts of life.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The thing is, you guys already have things that you claim are supernatural - strange voices, faces on tacos, etc. Some of those things can be explained - e.g. pareidolia. If they can not be expained, the proper conclusion is, "We don't know." The WORST conclusion is, "It's a miracle done by God - MY God, not somebody else's god." Tangle writes:
What will you do when they do? Im already predicting that the science minded skeptics will attempt to explain all of them away... What will you do when these supernatural events do not happen? It's always been like that, always has been, always will be (barring a universal abandonment of all gods). There are not going to be more "miraculous" events in the next 20 years. As the number of religious nuts decreases, it is likely that they will become louder."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
jar writes: Great question. And the answer which I have found(a scripture which many use to validate the Rapture) actually supports your point that Christianity is about what we do. But what possible behavior would differentiate some supernatural event from a delusion? This scripture is:
2 Thess 2:1-12 writes: Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.NKJV Now to be fair, I read the rest of Thessalonians(both of them) and began to get a context of what was expected and endured by Christians of that time.
2 Thess 1:3-6 writes: This supports you and ringos arguments that being Christians(or even good secular humanists who claim no title) involves what ringo calls blood, toil,tears,sweat and spare change. I need to be honest with what I find in scripture, even if it chalks up points for your arguments. because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer Basically, 2 Thessalonians does not so much support the concept of a Rapture so much as it supports the idea that true Christians have a love for each other, are willing to suffer for it, and endure in collective hope for Gods eventual vindication. Thus in answer to your question as to what possible behavior would differentiate some supernatural event from a delusion, the answer would appear to be the sacrificial love shown by the believers to everyone else.Perhaps the lie is not so much the believers "fantasies vs the rational world so much as it is the very lie that they will escape the hard work of saving the other victims of the collapsed society and world of that time. This sobers me up....i'm not sure if an old man like me is ready for a bunch of hard work at this late time in my life. Pastor Isaiah speaks of the excitement of being alive during what he calls supernatural times and a season of deliverance, healing, and revival...but while not disagreeing with him, I think that the sacrifice that the Christians will have to endure may cause the love of many to grow cold. Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Pastor Isaiah speaks of the excitement of being alive during what he calls supernatural times and a season of deliverance, healing, and revival...but while not disagreeing with him, I think that the sacrifice that the Christians will have to endure may cause the love of many to grow cold. Conmen always sell the easy and attractive crap.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
you always accuse all of them of being conmen...only because they do not follow your logic...which i will say is uninspired and itself a possible con.
one thing is evident....you disagree with and dislike their message yet have no more evidence that it is false than you have that yours will prove more true. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
LOL
Phat, just a single reply above you even quoted some of the evidence that exists but also pointed out that you did not like the lesson. The conmen sell the pretty, the sizzle, the easy out, the happy endings and claim that is what the message of Jesus says. But then when folk point out what is actually written in the stories and the creeds you claim that they have no evidence.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8513 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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A few million people crawling back out of their graves would do it. Or everyone finding their lost car keys under the same streetlamp at the same time. Or after drinking the Miracle Spring Water everyone receives a check for $40,000 in the ... in the MAIL!Factio Republicana delenda est.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8513 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Where are the fish evolves to mammals kind scientific explanations of the Kishony and Lenski evolutionary experiments? Oh fuck off, Kleinman. Your errant analyses of the Kishony and Lenski experiments means nothing to us fish-to-mammal aficionados. Your views on the subject mean nothing to us, to your peers, to any geneticist, biologist or mathematician on the planet. You're still shouting inanities into the aether.Factio Republicana delenda est.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
AZPaul3 is right about one thing, the "Kishony and Lenski experiments means nothing to us fish-to-mammal aficionados". These experiments reveal your delusions. And I do want to thank you for your help in the conclusion section of my next paper. And you must think that peer-reviewers live in your imaginary, mythological aether because that is where the paper goes next. Somebody needs to teach you fish-to-mammals aficionados how to do Markov Chain processes to describe DNA evolution. You should watch this video: Where are the fish evolves to mammals kind scientific explanations of the Kishony and Lenski evolutionary experiments?AZPaul3 writes: Oh fuck off, Kleinman. Your errant analyses of the Kishony and Lenski experiments means nothing to us fish-to-mammal aficionados. Your views on the subject mean nothing to us, to your peers, to any geneticist, biologist or mathematician on the planet. You're still shouting inanities into the aether.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1GxFKtxF-I Then you will understand why the "Kishony and Lenski experiments means nothing to us fish-to-mammal aficionados". These experiments expose your delusions. And if your "fish-to-mammal aficionados" were really experts on evolution, they would give the correct mathematical explanation for these two experiments but they and you don't.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Interesting mishmash of words: It is evident that there is no evidence? one thing is evident....you disagree with and dislike their message yet have no more evidence that it is false than you have that yours will prove more true. But you refuse to even look at the evidence."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8513 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
You should watch this video: Did you watch the video? You were predominately featured when he defined "delusional". Your citing this video is a textbook case of projection. You really need help. A suggestion for your paper. Do not include any discussion of how your Markov Chain mathematics and your use of stochastic processes proves that evolution from banana to fish to monkey to man is impossible. You already have enough scorn heaped on your reputation why invite more? On second thought, maybe you should include a lengthy section on the topic. Maybe the fierce negative feedback will penetrate that ego-castle you built around yourself and bring some reality into your thoughts. That has got to be healthier than where you are now. And drugs. Maybe you can do some drugs. Legally. On prescription. Factio Republicana delenda est.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ringo writes: What I meant was that it is evident to me that jar has no evidence that his interpretation of the plain reading of the Bible coupled with his judgement of the message of mainstream apologetics is any more likely to be the way that life will ultimately play out. And lets be fair here. Both of you claim that Jesus is simply a character in a book rather than an actual living presence that we can know. Yet you defend your message as to what Christianity should\ be about (a secular humanist do-gooders club) and vilify what you think it is (a carny huckster group of con men selling a false ideology to the gullible masses) That's what I see.
Interesting mishmash of words: It is evident that there is no evidence? But you refuse to even look at the evidence. Evidence for what? That Jesus is real? There is as of yet no objective evidence available. Subjectively, many have experienced His touch...yet you scoff at these people. It makes one wonder why you are so spiteful towards Biblical Christians. Is it simply the politics? The aura of exclusivity? Or is it something more. The despising of authority? The intrinsic dislike of the God we market? Lets go with that last one. If God was actually like the God that the apologists market, would you obey Him or would you oppose Him? Why or why not?"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: What I meant was that it is evident to me that jar has no evidence that his interpretation of the plain reading of the Bible coupled with his judgement of the message of mainstream apologetics is any more likely to be the way that life will ultimately play out. Once again Phat you are either attempting to prove that you are incapable of reading what I post or are once again trying to misrepresent what I post. Why must you always resort to at best, misrepresentation of what others post? What I assert is that what is actually written in the Bible is what the authors actually wrote in the stories. My position can be tested by going and reading what is actually written and in your very posts you have shown that when even YOU actually go and read honestly and fully what is written you agree that it support our position. And each time you tell us that you don't like that conclusion. See Message 78. But you have NEVER provided similar support for what YOU like and what the Apologist market.
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Kleinman Member (Idle past 335 days) Posts: 2142 From: United States Joined: |
Kleinman writes:
I'm not the one who thinks that fish evolve into mammals yet can't explain the simplest examples of evolution. It is you fish-to-mammal aficionados that have lost contact with reality and you have blindly bought into this irrationality. Next you will be telling us all the earth is flat. You need to come to your senses, the ignorance and delusions of the fish-to-mammal aficionados is harming people with drug-resistant infections and failed cancer treatments.
You should watch this video:AZPaul3 writes: Did you watch the video? You were predominately featured when he defined "delusional".
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8513 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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... the ignorance and delusions of the fish-to-mammal aficionados is harming people with drug-resistant infections and failed cancer treatments. Really? How so? Can you point to the studies in the discipline, other than your own, that detail this harm and its cause? Can you show us independent evidence, not from you since you are a known crackpot, where the modern theory of evolution harms people with drug-resistant infections and failed cancer treatments? Some studies from Nature and NEJM would be nice. Got any?Factio Republicana delenda est.
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