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Author Topic:   Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 1630 of 2073 (878149)
06-26-2020 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1629 by Kleinman
06-26-2020 9:52 AM


Re: A question about Tiktaalik
That is a bullshit question and you know it.
No one has the sequences that you so dishonestly ask for in order to answer that asinine question. Besides, there were most certainly a couple handfuls of tiktaalik species over many thousands of years each with incremental changes that led to land tetrapods. But you're so deeply buried in your inapplicable math you don't even know how ignorant you are of the evolution you try to destroy.
This is exactly the kind of intellectually dishonest BS we expect from crackpots.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1629 by Kleinman, posted 06-26-2020 9:52 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1631 by Kleinman, posted 06-26-2020 11:04 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1715 of 2073 (878576)
07-01-2020 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1714 by Kleinman
07-01-2020 5:26 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
I'm teaching people how evolution works and they can apply the principles to infectious disease, cancers, herbicides, pesticides, rodenticides, any situation where evolutionary processes can defeat your selection pressures.
No you're not teaching. The point that everyone has been making to you in this and the other forums we've seen is that all you're doing is spouting into the aether and no one is paying attention. Your own colleagues in both math and genetics ignore you when they are not calling you nuts.
Kleinman, you are a crackpot. No one is listening to you. Your audience left the building a long time ago, yet you keep on with the same useless mantra shouting insanely into the vacuum.
You are here to beg the attention the professional forums deny you. I think you're sick in the head. You need help.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1714 by Kleinman, posted 07-01-2020 5:26 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1716 by Kleinman, posted 07-01-2020 10:35 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1819 of 2073 (879018)
07-09-2020 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1716 by Kleinman
07-01-2020 10:35 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Hey, AZPaul3, have you figured out what random means? Is it somewhere between 1 and indeterminant?
You missed out on the discussion, again. Either that or you are lying because, well, that's what cracked pots do.
Message 16
The question I answered, correctly BTW, was not about random anything.
So, why don't you tell us how large the population must be for these drug-resistant variants to appear?
From a minimum of 1 to an indeterminate maximum. And you don't understand why that is do you.
You didn't ask about probabilities. You were asking, though in your intellectually challenged way you didn't notice, what sized population is required for some mutation to have occurred.
If you knew anything about fish-to-mammal evolution and the mathematics of DNA you would know that all it takes is one organism for there to be a mutation. And in an indeterminately large population such mutations are possible in any of the members at any time.
I was telling you to go fuck your probabilities.
You have continually lied about the referent in my answer. Since you hold yourself to be a smart person I can only conclude you did so deliberately.
You are not just a crackpot, Kleinman, you are a deliberate deceiver. You speak with forked tongue.
You are a liar, Kleinmen.
As for my use of the word aether, which seemed to throw you, it is quite a useful concept in discussions with the intellectually vacuous such as yourself. It fits your headspace and personality.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1716 by Kleinman, posted 07-01-2020 10:35 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1820 by Kleinman, posted 07-10-2020 9:56 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1821 of 2073 (879038)
07-10-2020 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1820 by Kleinman
07-10-2020 9:56 AM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
We all know that you know nothing about stochastic processes.
Of course, Mr Math Man, it's quite apparent from the reception of your ideas in the community that *you* certainly don't understand the math involved.
When you come to conclusions quite opposite of known reality then your math and your methods are junk being poured from a cracked pot.
When are you going to use Markov Chain mathematics and DNA phylogenetics to prove that you descended from bananas?
I don't have to.
Others, using much more accurate math and methods than you, have already shown how we all descended (recently) from common ancestors with monkeys and (less recently) from common ancestors with fish and (way back) from common ancestors with all plants, and, yes, Kleinman, that would include bananas which are classified in the kingdom Plantae which is a sister kingdom to Animalia, both of which shared common ancestry with Eukaryota.
Don't think too hard on it, Kleinman. You're so enamored with your Markov chain calculations and your errant explanations of the Kishony and Lenski experiments, we wouldn't want you to strain your brain on reality.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1820 by Kleinman, posted 07-10-2020 9:56 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1822 by Kleinman, posted 07-10-2020 2:45 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1823 of 2073 (879054)
07-10-2020 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1822 by Kleinman
07-10-2020 2:45 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
On the other hand, this math can be understood by any high school student who passed an introductory probability theory course and this may be the reason why the fish-to-mammal aficionados' refuse to accept this math.
You're the only one on the planet to know this. Everyone else has been wrong, deluded, recruited into a conspiracy.
You do know Eleanor Roosevelt used to fly around the White House, don't you? How about the mushrooms on Mars, you know about those, yes?
You keep piling it higher and deeper.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1822 by Kleinman, posted 07-10-2020 2:45 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1826 by Kleinman, posted 07-10-2020 4:37 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1835 of 2073 (879100)
07-11-2020 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1834 by Kleinman
07-11-2020 9:38 AM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
It appears that mathematics does fit with your delusions.
Correction: Your mathematics does not fit the reality of the world around us.
I can tell you with mathematical and empirical certainty that birds cannot evolve from reptiles and mammals cannot evolve from fish.In fact, it is not possible for chimpanzees and humans to evolve from a common ancestor.
-- your Message 1518
Where did these birds, reptiles, mammals and fish come from if they didn't evolve from other forms?
-- my Message 1520
You never answered my question.
Where did these birds, reptiles, mammals and fish come from if they didn't evolve from other forms?
How did life on this planet go from single eukaryotes to bananas to fish to monkeys to man?
If today's birds didn't evolve from reptiles, from the avian class of the dinosaur clade Theropoda specifically, then where did they come from? How did they get here?

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1834 by Kleinman, posted 07-11-2020 9:38 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1837 by Kleinman, posted 07-11-2020 12:50 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1840 of 2073 (879109)
07-11-2020 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1837 by Kleinman
07-11-2020 12:50 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Do you still think that the number of replications needed for each step in the Kishony and Lenski experiments is somewhere between 1 and indeterminant and not a billion?
Yep. We don't have to wait for the 1 billionth replication before we see a mutation. Your e9 generations per SNP is not a constant of biology no matter what your errant math is telling you.
You never answered my question.
Where did these birds, reptiles, mammals and fish come from if they didn't evolve from other forms?
How did life on this planet go from single eukaryotes to bananas to fish to monkeys to man?
If today's birds didn't evolve from reptiles, from the avian class of the dinosaur clade Theropoda specifically, then where did they come from? How did they get here?
That's not my job.
You're afraid! You're afraid, aren't you!
You're afraid the rest of the crack pot is going to come crashing out?
Is this a religious thing? An alien panspermia cosmic zoo thing?
Are you afraid we will laugh at your creation story? We're already laughing at your mutation mathematics so things can't really get much worse for you.
What are you afraid of, Kleinman?

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1837 by Kleinman, posted 07-11-2020 12:50 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1841 by Kleinman, posted 07-11-2020 4:31 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1845 of 2073 (879117)
07-11-2020 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1841 by Kleinman
07-11-2020 4:31 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
I have enough work on my hands teaching the mathematically incompetent the mathematics of DNA evolution.
Run away as fast as you can, Mr. Billion Generations per Mutation.
So afraid to answer a simple question?
Come on, Kleinman. Your math proves without a shadow of a doubt that evolution is impossible. So what takes its place? Where did this all come from?
You certainly have way more than enough time to write a few short paragraphs on what replaces evolution now that your billion-generations-per-mutation-Markov-Chain math has so thoroughly destroyed the great cornerstone of modern biology and genetics.
Don't be afraid, Kleinman. The world awaits your great insight.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1841 by Kleinman, posted 07-11-2020 4:31 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1847 by Kleinman, posted 07-11-2020 5:43 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1850 of 2073 (879124)
07-11-2020 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1847 by Kleinman
07-11-2020 5:43 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
Your billion-generations-per-mutation math proves without a shadow of a doubt that evolution is impossible. So what takes its place? Where did this all come from?
Still afraid to answer the question?

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1847 by Kleinman, posted 07-11-2020 5:43 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1851 by Kleinman, posted 07-11-2020 6:26 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1854 of 2073 (879129)
07-11-2020 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1851 by Kleinman
07-11-2020 6:26 PM


Re: If We Throw The ToE Away, What Will Replace It?
We fish-to-man aficionados blame common descent thru evolution for this affair. The fossil-tea leaf readers say fish-to-man.
You say your billion-generations-per-mutation is indeed the way evolution works. But you also say your billion-generations-per-mutation makes common descent thru evolution impossible.
So the gospel according to Kleinman is that common descent does not happen and fish-to-man did not happen.
So in the gospel according to Kleinman what did happen?

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1851 by Kleinman, posted 07-11-2020 6:26 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1856 by Kleinman, posted 07-12-2020 5:48 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1889 of 2073 (879372)
07-15-2020 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1887 by dad
07-15-2020 10:15 AM


Re: Impossible is not probable
The way genetics worked was simply not the same and not under the current laws.
And your evidence is what? Fairy tales? The badly kludged oral histories of some ancient goat herders? Your gut feel?
Rank ignorance and the stupidity of refusing to learn?
Tell us about this "other, different, used-to-be" nature that never was.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1887 by dad, posted 07-15-2020 10:15 AM dad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1892 by dad, posted 07-15-2020 2:35 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1894 of 2073 (879394)
07-15-2020 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1892 by dad
07-15-2020 2:35 PM


Re: Impossible is not probable
That's not the way this works.
YOU said the nature was different. That DNA and chemistry worked differently.
That is YOUR contention.
Now give acceptable evidence or retract your errant claim.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1892 by dad, posted 07-15-2020 2:35 PM dad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1895 by dad, posted 07-15-2020 4:40 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1896 of 2073 (879402)
07-15-2020 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1895 by dad
07-15-2020 4:40 PM


Re: Impossible is not probable
So you have nothing to evidence your contention that the laws of nature were different long ago. Conveniently different so that your religious fairy tales would come true.
Without such evidence we reject your "other different" nature bull and call your fairy tale stories delusional.
Science says it was the same and that the present is the key to the past.
Yes it does. You want to try and prove this wrong then have at it ... idiot,
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1895 by dad, posted 07-15-2020 4:40 PM dad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1899 by dad, posted 07-16-2020 3:26 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 1900 of 2073 (879423)
07-16-2020 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1899 by dad
07-16-2020 3:26 AM


Re: Impossible is not probable
We know the laws of nature are consistent through time as well as through space. This is long settled science that requires no new justification especially to a religious crackpot.
It is not my contention that science knows, that would be your contention.
Well ... you said something right. I cannot disagree.
And since the scientific consensus on this is long settled and you are a lone religious lunatic howling at the internet, the science wins.
I am happy to go with the records of the past we do have.
Record of the past? You mean the old embellishments of ancient oral histories written and sloppily rewritten in a millennia-old game of "telephone" by a wandering tribe of goat herders and a string of delusional religious zealots? Complete with talking snake?
Compelling.
Not.
Science wins again.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1899 by dad, posted 07-16-2020 3:26 AM dad has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 1921 of 2073 (879677)
07-20-2020 4:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1920 by dad
07-19-2020 9:27 PM


Re: let my little people go
That is why the dull delusional foolishness of majikal religious thinking must be exorcised like the demon it is from the public schools. The lie that is religion does nothing but poison young minds. Only the truth of science can prevail against the tide of evil that religion has used to shackle the human mind for millennia.
Be gone religion! Be gone unclean spirit!
Leave this school in the name of the Real, the Evidenced and the Laws of Physics!
The Power of Science Compels You!
The Power of Science Compels You!
The Power of Science Compels You!

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1920 by dad, posted 07-19-2020 9:27 PM dad has not replied

  
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