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Author Topic:   What have we accomplished?
Kleinman
Member (Idle past 353 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 190 of 263 (879512)
07-17-2020 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by PaulK
07-17-2020 10:21 AM


Re: Self Serving Beliefs
Kleinman writes:
There's no point in discussing my model when the mathematically incompetent PaulK doesn't understand the Jukes-Cantor model and what is simulates physically
PaulK writes:
Then since I know it well enough to correct your errors on a number of occasions it would follow that you are incapable of creating a corrected version. Not least because you don’t understand what it’s meant to model. So that’s an implicit admission that you have nothing.
You can't even explain the Jukes-Cantor model, you don't understand what a Markov chain process is. You should study the Harvard and MIT lectures videos on YouTube so you might not blow so much stinky smoke.
PaulK writes:
As for mathematical incompetence:
Kleinman writes:
Then go a little further down the page and find the paragraph titled "Deriving the dynamics of substitution" and you will find the vector equation:
E = {A,G,C,T}
PaulK writes:
When I look at that I don’t see a vector equation I see the set of possible states. Why don’t we look at the next line and see what it is?
be the set of possible states for the site, and
That's right you mathematically incompetent numbskull. This Jukes-Cantor Markov process consists of 4 possible states at the particular site that when you multiply that vector by the transition matrix gives the next state of the system. You don't have to parameterize the system to time in order to calculate the transitions of the system. You can simply multiply the state vector by the transition matrix to get the next state of the system, it is a simple recursion relationship. Since it is clear that you don't understand the Harvard and MIT lectures on this subject, watch this example of how you set up and calculate a Markov process by direct matrix multiplication.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvYTGEZQTEs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by PaulK, posted 07-17-2020 10:21 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by PaulK, posted 07-17-2020 11:03 AM Kleinman has replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 353 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 192 of 263 (879520)
07-17-2020 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by PaulK
07-17-2020 11:03 AM


Re: Self Serving Beliefs
PaulK writes:
If I was really that dumb you wouldn’t be so scared of posting your alleged model. Or your arguments.
I've already given you so many hints that you should able to post the model yourself. You are just too mathmatically incompetent to do the math yourself. You will have to wait until the paper gets published to see how to do the math. But you won't understand that either. I doubt that many of you fish-to-mammals aficionados will understand the math and physics. You are too busy writing your mythology about evolution.
But I do want to thank you for helping to lift my writers' block.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by PaulK, posted 07-17-2020 11:03 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by PaulK, posted 07-17-2020 11:40 AM Kleinman has replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 353 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 194 of 263 (879525)
07-17-2020 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by PaulK
07-17-2020 11:40 AM


Re: Self Serving Beliefs
Kleinman writes:
I've already given you so many hints that you should able to post the model yourself.
PaulK writes:
One of the standard Kleinman excuses. In reality you haven’t even thought of a model, otherwise you would know about the problems you’d encounter.
Of course, I understand the problems I will encounter. They are the same problems that people encountered when they told the flat-earthers that the earth isn't flat. You fish-to-mammals aficionados have been doing the math wrong for so long that you can't even imagine there is a correct way of doing the mathematics of evolution. But I do find it amusing that by correctly banana-picking the gene that you can show that you are related to bananas.
PaulK writes:
If there is a paper (which I doubt) it will just be your attempts to apply Jukes-Cantor to the question of getting two mutations at once. Which you can do, but it’s hardly going to add much to human knowledge.
There's a paper and I added a little more today thanks to you. And maybe it will add a little knowledge to the descendants of bananas.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by PaulK, posted 07-17-2020 11:40 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by PaulK, posted 07-17-2020 12:45 PM Kleinman has replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 353 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 196 of 263 (879528)
07-17-2020 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by ringo
07-17-2020 12:16 PM


Re: Self Serving Beliefs
Kleinman writes:
You haven't taken courses in organic and biochemistry, have you?
ringo writes:
Yes. I have.
OK, so what's the simplest self-replicating organism that doesn't require a host to replicate and how many genes does it have?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by ringo, posted 07-17-2020 12:16 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by ringo, posted 07-17-2020 12:26 PM Kleinman has not replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 353 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 199 of 263 (879535)
07-17-2020 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by PaulK
07-17-2020 12:45 PM


Re: Self Serving Beliefs
Kleinman writes:
Of course, I understand the problems I will encounter.
PaulK writes:
I doubt that because you haven’t bothered to think about it.
You have so many doubts. But you don't doubt that fish evolve into mammals and that you are a descendant of bananas.
Kleinman writes:
They are the same problems that people encountered when they told the flat-earthers that the earth isn't flat.
PaulK writes:
And thanks for proving it again. Though you got it wrong, of course. As usual.
So you think the earth is flat as well! No wonder you have no doubts that you descended from bananas. That explains your split from reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by PaulK, posted 07-17-2020 12:45 PM PaulK has not replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 353 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


(1)
Message 206 of 263 (879562)
07-18-2020 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by Trump won
07-17-2020 11:43 PM


a servant of Christ writes:
kleinman has 11 published papers, and you guys talk to him like he's a tin-foil hat. no wonder the discourse on this site is stale.
It's not quite 11 published papers, it's 2 papers and a PhD dissertation on thermodynamics and heat transfer, 6 papers on evolution, and the layman's abstract. My next paper will make 11. I wrote quite of few papers for internal use when I worked in the aerospace industry but they all pertained to heat transfer. That's nothing like the numbers produced by the fish-to-mammals factories. Of course, none of those papers correctly explain how evolution works. But even the stale fish-to-mammals aficionados sometimes gives me inspiration and it always gives me exercises in dealing with bad logic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Trump won, posted 07-17-2020 11:43 PM Trump won has not replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 353 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 207 of 263 (879563)
07-18-2020 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by PaulK
07-18-2020 12:14 AM


Kleinman writes:
kleinman has 11 published papers,
PaulK writes:
He says he does. That doesn’t make it true. And judging by his performance here it probably isn’t. The papers aren’t full of stupid mistakes or insults or declarations of how great Kleinman is.
You really are a moron PaulK, I've never said I published 11 papers. And just because you are too stupid to understand the basic principles of Markov chains and how to apply them to the Jukes-Cantor model and how it is applied to DNA phylogenetics, don't blame me. I've pointed you to numerous references that explain these concepts. You are just too dumb to understand them.
Kleinman writes:
no wonder the discourse on this site is stale.
PaulK writes:
Kleinman doesn’t contribute anything. And mindless agreement with him wouldn’t be an improvement.
If he had good arguments I’d give them fair consideration. The fact he hides his arguments hardly convinces me that they’re good. It convinces me that he knows that they aren’t.
And where are PaulK's papers that explain the physics and mathematics of the Kishony and Lenski evolutionary experiments? All PaulK can do is whine and say Kleinman is wrong and insulting. Take a course in introductory probability theory and pass the course and find out why you are wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by PaulK, posted 07-18-2020 12:14 AM PaulK has not replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 353 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 208 of 263 (879564)
07-18-2020 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 202 by AZPaul3
07-18-2020 12:30 AM


AZPaul3 writes:
Frank Tipler, Andrew Wakefield, Fred Hoyle.
What have you done for me lately?
Doesn't matter what past honors were achieved.
When someone goes off the deep end into fantasy they are just another crackpot nutjob.
Add Kleinman to the list above.
AZPaul3's idea of sanity is that fish evolve into mammals. Too bad he can't explain the Kishony and Lenski experiments. Then he could give the correct explanation for the evolution of drug-resistance and cancer treatment failures. Your continuing lunacies are harming people with your mythology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by AZPaul3, posted 07-18-2020 12:30 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 353 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 209 of 263 (879565)
07-18-2020 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by Tangle
07-18-2020 2:18 AM


a servant of Christ writes:
kleinman has 11 published papers, and you guys talk to him like he's a tin-foil hat. no wonder the discourse on this site is stale.
Tangle writes:
This is an anonymous web site, we have no idea who the guy called 'kleinman' here is.
Secondly, he IS a crackpot. Now that wouldn't matter if what he was saying about the maths was right - Newton was bonkers but he could do sums - but he isn't.
The fact that he's here at all - on an amateur web site with people like you on it talking total crap - instead of talking to people in his field should tell you that he's a crank.
It's only anonymous if you choose it. And with the garbage you spout, I see why you would want to remain anonymous. And weren't you the one who claimed to be a scientist, you liar? Fish evolving into mammals! No one should be skeptical of that claim. So where is your explanation of the physics and mathematics of the Kishony and Lenski experiments? Oh, and I tried to debate this subject with Felsenstein and challenged him to do the mathematics of the Lenski experiment. He said he wouldn't do it, it would take too much time.
Edited by Kleinman, : typo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Tangle, posted 07-18-2020 2:18 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Tangle, posted 07-18-2020 9:34 AM Kleinman has replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 353 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 210 of 263 (879566)
07-18-2020 8:19 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by PaulK
07-18-2020 7:38 AM


PaulK writes:
How do you know that those profiles belong to Kleinman? Whoever he is.
Besides, his behaviour here matters. He is excessively proud and arrogant. He does say things that are ridiculously false - that he should know to be false if he’s as competent as he claims. That is practically begging to be mocked. Not to mention the fact that he’s as abusive as anyone on this forum.
Is that all you can do is whine? Where're your papers explaining the physics and mathematics of the Kishony and Lenski evolutionary experiments. You are such a crybaby PaulK and not very well educated.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by PaulK, posted 07-18-2020 7:38 AM PaulK has not replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 353 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 212 of 263 (879568)
07-18-2020 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by Tangle
07-18-2020 9:34 AM


Kleinman writes:
And weren't you the one who claimed to be a scientist, you liar?
Tangle writes:
No, that would be another one of your many errors. I'm not a scientist though I do have a couple of science degrees, one post grad. I have published in another non-related discipline; my other post-grad degree.
Prove it or just continue to be the liar you are.
Tangle writes:
So now that we're finished measuring dicks and just so you don't feel like you have to say it again, I will not be commenting on your mathematics. It's not my subject, though your absurd misunderstandings of very basic probability are visible even to me.
You haven't measured anything. You just babble nonsense about Kiwi birds.
Tangle writes:
But I'm very happy to put you right on gods, beliefs and atheism - the actual reason you're here and a subject you keep poking your nose out on before pulling it right back behind your little mathematical smokescreen.
If only you fish-to-mammals aficionados could correctly explain the physics and mathematics of the Lenski and Kishony experiments, but that kind of physics and mathematics is not in your indoctrination. Too bad for those suffering from drug-resistant infections and failed cancer treatments. Why don't you try to put the world right for them?
Tangle writes:
How about you get out of your closet and discuss your real agenda?
So now in your tangled mind you add paranoia to your delusions. Is the correct explanation of the physics and mathematics of evolution that frightening to you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Tangle, posted 07-18-2020 9:34 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by Tangle, posted 07-18-2020 12:17 PM Kleinman has replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 353 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 214 of 263 (879572)
07-18-2020 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by PaulK
07-18-2020 11:51 AM


PaulK writes:
His actual motive might be a vendetta against Alan Kleinman.
lol

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by PaulK, posted 07-18-2020 11:51 AM PaulK has not replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 353 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 218 of 263 (879582)
07-18-2020 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by Tangle
07-18-2020 12:17 PM


Kleinman writes:
Prove it or just continue to be the liar you are.
Tangle writes:
What a model Christian you are; such a role model. I'm sure your god is pleased with you.
Anytime you wish to talk about your beliefs, just post away, meanwhile I'll leave you to your sums.
I'd post more about math and physics but you were not indoctrinated into those scientific disciplines. Just retreat back into your pseudo-scientific delusional world that you use to justify your atheism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Tangle, posted 07-18-2020 12:17 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Tangle, posted 07-18-2020 3:34 PM Kleinman has replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 353 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 219 of 263 (879583)
07-18-2020 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by ringo
07-18-2020 12:37 PM


a Servant of Christ writes:
kleinman has 11 published papers, and you guys talk to him like he's a tin-foil hat. no wonder the discourse on this site is stale.
ringo writes:
There's only so much you can say to a tin-foil hat.
Oh, no! There is plenty more to say to the tin-foil hat wearing fish-to-mammals aficionados. The tin-foil hat wearing fish-to-mammals aficionados still need to learn how to do DNA phylogenetics correctly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by ringo, posted 07-18-2020 12:37 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by ringo, posted 07-18-2020 1:06 PM Kleinman has replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 353 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 220 of 263 (879584)
07-18-2020 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by vimesey
07-18-2020 12:46 PM


vimesey writes:
That's an interesting thought. Alan Kleinman and his Church went to Court over a parking easement - it was established that he hadn't paid a $30 fee for the easement. I'm guessing his church was a bit peeved about things.
There is no end to the fish-to-mammals aficionados' fiction story telling. Too bad you fish-to-mammals aficionados don't understand physics and math. You might be able to tell a non-fiction story about evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by vimesey, posted 07-18-2020 12:46 PM vimesey has not replied

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