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Author Topic:   3 Theories Of Everything by Ellis Potter
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 3 of 99 (879173)
07-12-2020 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
07-12-2020 2:10 PM


just somebody else making shit up

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 07-12-2020 2:10 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Phat, posted 07-13-2020 12:56 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 9 of 99 (879219)
07-13-2020 2:31 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Phat
07-13-2020 12:56 AM


Phat writes:
Humans do far mire than simply make stuff up. the characters exist apart from and outside of the book.
They made the book up, but at least there is a book for you to believe in, nonsense though most of it is. But it's quite another thing when people start imagining and claiming all sorts of crap that is not in the book. They can say absolutely anything they like because it's not open to challenge. It's just religious babble with no verifyable meaning.
No way to prove it to you though.
Or to you, or anybody. You just swallow it whole because it fits your personal belief.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Phat, posted 07-13-2020 12:56 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 07-13-2020 3:45 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 15 of 99 (879259)
07-13-2020 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
07-13-2020 3:45 PM


Re: O Tangled One
Phat writes:
I'm assuming you mean the Bible, though I suppose that your charge could also apply to Ellis Potters book.
Of course.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 07-13-2020 3:45 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 17 of 99 (879284)
07-14-2020 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Phat
07-14-2020 2:44 AM


Re: A One & A Two & A Three
Phat writes:
I believe the existence of absolutes is most likely,but is inconvenient and disagreeable to our egos.
What does he think an 'absolute' is? It sounds like he's just substituting a pseudo-philosophical term for a god.
People nowadays are often motivated not to believe in absolutes, because if there are true absolutes, then we are responsible to the absolute.(...)
Bullshit. That's just the rationalisation of a believer. People don't believe in religious waffle because it's just dumb.
When I looked for absolutes, I discovered there weren't many. I believe it comes down to three: Monism, Dualism, and Trinitarianism.
I can't even work out what this is supposed to mean - if anything.
If science is the measure of everything, you have scientism. If the human being is the measure of everything,you have humanism.
Science is simply a method of understanding our universe. Scientism is a slander than those believing in magic use in an attempt to dismiss it because it threatens them.
Humanism is a democratic and ethical life stance, which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives.
The measure of everything? Again, he's just saying that humanists don't believe in god - wow who knew? - and being critical of then for not doing.
Tangle would claim that I am simply agreeing with made up mumbo jumbo that gives me comfort. Perhaps he is right.
That at least is true.
The story is intriguing.
The only intriguing thing about it is why anyone is fooled by a pile of incoherent twaddle.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Phat, posted 07-14-2020 2:44 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 45 of 99 (879722)
07-21-2020 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Phat
07-21-2020 12:39 AM


Re: Some of the best questions and answers from the book.
They're the best in the book?
It's a continuing source of puzzlement to me how you can read that totally unsubstantiated, almost meaningless tripe that's simply made up on the spot and be impressed by it.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 07-21-2020 12:39 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 07-21-2020 4:04 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(3)
Message 48 of 99 (879726)
07-21-2020 4:25 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by Phat
07-21-2020 4:04 AM


Re: Some of the best questions and answers from the book.
Phat writes:
First of all, it really isn't "made-up". But I'll never convince you unless I somehow can capture some objective proof some day.
The words and ideas that these people spout is totally made up - there's no other source for them. On the few occasions I'm forced into church - births, deaths and marriages - I hear the priest riff around such stuff as though no one with a critical mind is listening. Which I guess they're usually not and which is why they get away with it. Preaching to the converted.
Most of you really want autonomy and never would trust a cosmic authority figure even if One could be proven to exist.
The same refuted stuff just keeps bouncing back as though it was never said. Most of us deal with the reality in front of us. If that ever involved this god thing of yours, we'd deal with it. You know, that stuff about when the facts change...?
I know it's alien to you but realists are capable of changing their minds based on evidence. Try it, you might like it.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 07-21-2020 4:04 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Phat, posted 07-21-2020 9:20 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 50 of 99 (879731)
07-21-2020 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Phat
07-21-2020 9:20 AM


Re: Some of the best questions and answers from the book.
Phat writes:
I am starting to understand your positions somewhat better, but for the life of me cannot figure why it is so hard for you to understand mine.
offs. Of course I understand your position! How many times have I explained to that I believed the same garbage as you do once. I completely get it.
But it's a delusion - once the smoke blows away you feel a complete idiot for ever believing it.
I certainly didnt simply adopt a belief/philosophy which was simply (and entirely) made up!
Of course you did. Just like you think everyone but you and your fellow Christian nutters think every other religion is made up. Despite those believers having exactly the same experience that you have and I had. Despite the fact that you couldn't have had your experience if you'd been born elsewhere or even to different parents. Wake up, you're not special.
I would only add that I believe that we are not originating the stories but are borrowing from the mind(s) in Holy Communion with the Living Spirit.
(had to verify to you that I too was and am a loon!
I already knew Phat. It hurts.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Phat, posted 07-21-2020 9:20 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 07-21-2020 10:00 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(2)
Message 54 of 99 (879740)
07-21-2020 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Phat
07-21-2020 10:00 AM


Re: Building On Ideas From Others
Phat writes:
But the science minds and philosophy minds use each others words to build on their own theories. Yes, these theories can be better tested than can the theological theories, but to limit the ideas to empirical evidence is a bit biased in my mind. In philosophy, you often have to take what is said with the premise that you yourself don't need to believe it but are curious where the idea comes from.
Science is not philosophy. And theology is neither.
Theology is wholly made up, has no foundation in anything but a core feeling that mankind is special above all other organisms that are born and die. We made it all up for our own purposes and it became a power structure that survives only while it is culturally acceptable.
Philosophy thinks that it can think itself an understanding of the world. Just by sitting in a chair and thinking really hard. At least it's rational and logical, but it gets nowhere if the conclusions it forms can't be tested in the real world. Science is the only thing we've invented that can test the real world an get reproducible, independent, objective answers.
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 07-21-2020 10:00 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 08-29-2020 3:12 PM Tangle has not replied

  
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