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Topic: Should we teach both evolution and religion in school?
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1926 of 2073 (879762)
07-21-2020 5:16 PM
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It's a null topic, of course both evolution and religion should be taught in schools. Evolution is an established and basic part of biology. Religion is an important part of global history and culture. But why pick on evolution? Is geology ok? And why restrict religious education to, presumably Christianity? And to dogma and practice rather than history and comparative religious study?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1930 of 2073 (879788)
07-22-2020 3:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 1927 by Kleinman
07-22-2020 12:26 PM
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kleinman writes: I certainly haven't argued that evolution shouldn't be taught in school. Good
But I also think that alchemy shouldn't be taught as chemistry Good, but luckily there's seems to be no religious objection to alchemy and it's not science so we're all clear.
And that means they must understand the mathematics of stochastic processes. Luckily, statistics is part of every science degree that has any interest in research - which is pretty much all of them even social science these days - so you're not going to get any arguments. Rocket science it ain't.
Biology students are being taught dogma, not science. And then you go and drop our pants and reveal yourself as a religiously motivated clown again. Evolution is core curriculum for biology and will be for ever. Or until you stand on the Nobel podium. I literally can't wait.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1927 by Kleinman, posted 07-22-2020 12:26 PM | | Kleinman has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1933 of 2073 (879804)
07-22-2020 4:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 1931 by Kleinman
07-22-2020 3:27 PM
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Kleinman writes: I've talked to many biologists and biology students over the years and not one could explain the physics and mathematics of the I've talked to many biologists and biology students over the years and not one could explain the physics and mathematics of the Kishony and Lenski evolutionary experiments. i evolutionary experiments. Oh, you said 'mathematics of Kishony and Lenski' again. I'd missed it, having not heard you say it for 10 minutes at least. I dunno perhaps they don't think it's the ground-breaking, iconoclastic, generation defining idea that you think it is? Or even wrong? How quickly do they leave?
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1931 by Kleinman, posted 07-22-2020 3:27 PM | | Kleinman has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1937 of 2073 (879811)
07-22-2020 5:48 PM
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Reply to: Message 1936 by vimesey
07-22-2020 5:23 PM
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It's odd isn't it? Evolution denying has become a thing like holocaust denial and antivax. That's all mad enough but I really don't get religion denying. That's supposed to be against everything they're supposed to believe. I suppose they find a way to justify it to themselves but only them and their god knows how.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1936 by vimesey, posted 07-22-2020 5:23 PM | | vimesey has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1942 of 2073 (879819)
07-23-2020 3:18 AM
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Reply to: Message 1940 by Kleinman
07-22-2020 6:27 PM
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kleinman writes: Who's denying evolution? That would be you kleinman, you're a young earth creationist.
I can't justify it to you, you don't have the mathematical and scientific skills to understand the justification. I'm not interested in your mathematics, my comment had nothing to do with your mathematics. Sometimes normal people talk of other subjects. I was wondering how you reconcile denying your beliefs whilst being a Christian. It's another version of lying for Jesus.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1940 by Kleinman, posted 07-22-2020 6:27 PM | | Kleinman has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1948 of 2073 (879839)
07-23-2020 2:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 1944 by Kleinman
07-23-2020 12:30 PM
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kleinman writes: Your mind reading skills are no better than your mathematical skills. I no longer need to guess, you've already admitted it. Took a while and it slipped out sideways but oh, yes, you're just another warped Christian creationist pretending that you know the mysteries of creation. We get a few types here, the indoctrinated, those that god talks to and your type, the nutter that thinks they know things that the world of science does not know and is usually writing a book or publishing a paper that will change the world; but never do. It's surprising how many of the sciency types are so loathe to expose their beliefs but always do in the end. It's dishonest but that doesn't seem to matter. Of course if I HAVE got it entirely wrong, you can just put us all right.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1944 by Kleinman, posted 07-23-2020 12:30 PM | | Kleinman has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1950 by dad, posted 07-23-2020 4:43 PM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1952 of 2073 (879854)
07-23-2020 5:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 1950 by dad
07-23-2020 4:43 PM
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dad writes: Always good talking as if you have won or have something to say after someone gets banned eh? I know you're confused and bewildered by time so I'm sure you won't be impressed by me saying that my comments was the day before he was suspended (not banned). But I'm sure you're right, EVC clocks had a different nature yesterday.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1950 by dad, posted 07-23-2020 4:43 PM | | dad has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1953 by dad, posted 07-23-2020 6:01 PM | | Tangle has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1963 of 2073 (889227)
11-11-2021 4:38 AM
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Of course religion should be taught in school. Religion is a very important part of human history, philosophy and the development of our civilisation. The curriculum should include the history and beliefs of all world religions and include non-belief, paganism and ancestor worship. It should obviously not be simply another form of Christian sectarianism. Evolution is taught in schools as an integral part of the biological sciences where it needs to be Biblical creationism has no place being taught in a science class because it isn't science but it could be included - in all its many forms - in the module discussing the various creation myths.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 1978 by EWolf, posted 11-12-2021 10:28 PM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 1981 of 2073 (889263)
11-13-2021 5:35 AM
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Reply to: Message 1978 by EWolf
11-12-2021 10:28 PM
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E Dunn:
Have you considered these statements made by Isaac Newton and Johann Kepler?
Sure and many more. Why do you think the views of those two people are relevant to what you call truth? If I quoted two famous scientists that said that the bible is a bunch of myths created by and for an iron age society would that cancel those two views out? What if I quoted my mum, would that count?
quote:
Scientific and Biblical truth go hand in hand. Where does any truth including that which is scientific come from but from God? Without conscience governed by Biblical truth, what would stop a scientist from performing destructive experiments on live humans?
Ok, too much madness there for me.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1978 by EWolf, posted 11-12-2021 10:28 PM | | EWolf has not replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 2018 of 2073 (889399)
11-25-2021 3:28 AM
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Reply to: Message 2016 by EWolf
11-25-2021 12:24 AM
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EWolf writes: One of you said that you were an atheist. May I please share a few things I learned by talking with guys like you? Atheism may only be professed based on denial. If that's what you learned talking to us bad-arsed atheists, you weren't listening.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2016 by EWolf, posted 11-25-2021 12:24 AM | | EWolf has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2019 by Phat, posted 11-25-2021 7:27 AM | | Tangle has replied |
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Tangle
Member Posts: 9504 From: UK Joined: 10-07-2011 Member Rating: 4.7
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Message 2022 of 2073 (889407)
11-25-2021 9:33 AM
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Reply to: Message 2019 by Phat
11-25-2021 7:27 AM
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Re: Null & Void
Phat writes: What I'm still trying to figure out is how you managed to turn the null hypothesis into the default method. You're really not are you? You've had it explained dozens of times but you don't actually want to get it. The default position is that the world is the way it seems to be until it's shown not to be. "the null hypothesis (often denoted H0) is a default hypothesis that a quantity to be measured is zero (null)." The null hypothesis is that there is no god; you have to prove that statement wrong. At least get your terminology right.
Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2019 by Phat, posted 11-25-2021 7:27 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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