Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 916,337 Year: 3,594/9,624 Month: 465/974 Week: 78/276 Day: 6/23 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1934 of 2370 (880151)
07-30-2020 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1920 by Juvenissun
07-29-2020 1:24 PM


Re: Continent growth
Juvenissun writes:
So, there was about 3.x billion years of time to allow the Gondawanaland to "grow" into its size.
We're talking about the Biblical Flood here. If a flood was possible long before there were people on earth, that is not relevant to this discussion.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1920 by Juvenissun, posted 07-29-2020 1:24 PM Juvenissun has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1935 of 2370 (880154)
07-30-2020 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1933 by Juvenissun
07-30-2020 9:23 AM


Juvenissun writes:
The lower the continent, the easier to get overrun by seawater.
That's irrelevant. For the Biblical Flood to happen, the highest point on earth has to be covered, no matter what continent it's on.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1933 by Juvenissun, posted 07-30-2020 9:23 AM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1937 by Juvenissun, posted 07-30-2020 9:39 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1939 of 2370 (880161)
07-30-2020 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1937 by Juvenissun
07-30-2020 9:39 AM


Juvenissun writes:
What if the highest mountain on the earth was not that high (in contrast to the amount of water "suddenly" increased on the earth?)
Then that would have nothing to do with what you've been talking about. If you want to claim that the mountains rose up after the flood, you'll need evidence of that.
Juvenissun writes:
See, this would be related to the issue on the source of sea water.
That also is not what you've been talking about. If you want to claim that there was more water on earth during the flood than there was before the flood or after the flood, you'll need evidence of where it came from and where it went.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1937 by Juvenissun, posted 07-30-2020 9:39 AM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1942 by Juvenissun, posted 07-30-2020 11:53 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1945 of 2370 (880192)
07-30-2020 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 1944 by Juvenissun
07-30-2020 12:17 PM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible" ...
Juvenissun writes:
ringo writes:
The point is that science gets RESULTS.
He is very wrong. Science only gets QUESTIONS.
Science gets results like oil. Oil is not a question.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1944 by Juvenissun, posted 07-30-2020 12:17 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1949 by Juvenissun, posted 07-30-2020 3:31 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1946 of 2370 (880193)
07-30-2020 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1942 by Juvenissun
07-30-2020 11:53 AM


Juvenissun writes:
Do not ask so fast about evidence.
Evidence is always the first thing to ask for. Without evidence, there's nowhere to go.
Juvenissun writes:
We should have a solid model.
A solid model would be based on evidence.
Juvenissun writes:
Do you understand my model of the global flood?
If your "model" is that the mountains grew up after the flood, I understand it. Now show us the evidence.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1942 by Juvenissun, posted 07-30-2020 11:53 AM Juvenissun has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1964 of 2370 (880227)
07-31-2020 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1949 by Juvenissun
07-30-2020 3:31 PM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible" ...
Juvenissun writes:
Oil is a BIG question.
Oil itself is not a question. If you have actual questions about oil, somebody here may be able to answer them.
Juvenissun writes:
Of course, you can just use it without asking anything.
A few of the early oilfields may have been found by "luck" but don't kid yourself that they don't need science.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1949 by Juvenissun, posted 07-30-2020 3:31 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1967 by Juvenissun, posted 07-31-2020 10:46 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1965 of 2370 (880229)
07-31-2020 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1963 by Juvenissun
07-31-2020 6:18 AM


Re: lord of the belief
Juvenissun writes:
If you work in your office and people ask you what is the evidence that you believe your home is still there? How do you answer?
You know the answer to that; it's the same answer that you would give: It was there the last time I checked and there's no evidence that it has changed.
Juvenissun writes:
Ask: "Evidence?" is a coward response.
It's a scientific response.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1963 by Juvenissun, posted 07-31-2020 6:18 AM Juvenissun has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1966 of 2370 (880231)
07-31-2020 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 1962 by Juvenissun
07-31-2020 5:57 AM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
What kind of evidence you expect to see about the global flood? Deposition?
Yes.
Erosion?
We'd expect to see erosion in the layers UNDER the Flood-deposited layers.
Folded mountain?
No. Mud doesn't fold.
Earthquake?
No. An earthquake can cause a tsunami but not a worldwide one.
And the Bible is explicit that the Flood was caused by rain.
or something?
Most important (to me) is that the Flood evidence would have to be EVERYWHERE. We have evidence for relatively small floods all over the world. Your challenge is to find evidence of ONE BIG FLOOD, not just evidence of "floods".

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1962 by Juvenissun, posted 07-31-2020 5:57 AM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1968 by Juvenissun, posted 07-31-2020 11:00 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1969 of 2370 (880263)
07-31-2020 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1967 by Juvenissun
07-31-2020 10:46 AM


Re: Just as the fact that there is no "Bible" ...
Juvenissun writes:
Oil is a BIG problem. I do have questions. Who can help?
Start a thread. I don't think we have one specifically about oil "problems".

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1967 by Juvenissun, posted 07-31-2020 10:46 AM Juvenissun has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 1970 of 2370 (880264)
07-31-2020 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1968 by Juvenissun
07-31-2020 11:00 AM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
We probably can not find any geological evidence of the global flood.
So you're done here.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1968 by Juvenissun, posted 07-31-2020 11:00 AM Juvenissun has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2054 of 2370 (880468)
08-06-2020 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 2053 by Juvenissun
08-06-2020 10:17 AM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
You do not even know what a flood is.
Why don't YOU tell US what a flood is?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2053 by Juvenissun, posted 08-06-2020 10:17 AM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2055 by Juvenissun, posted 08-06-2020 3:17 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2072 of 2370 (880547)
08-07-2020 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 2055 by Juvenissun
08-06-2020 3:17 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
ringo writes:
Why don't YOU tell US what a flood is?
I rather not. You will say it is wrong because you will not understand what I would say.
If you can't tell us what a flood is, you have no business claiming that one happened.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2055 by Juvenissun, posted 08-06-2020 3:17 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2074 by Juvenissun, posted 08-07-2020 6:17 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2078 of 2370 (880597)
08-07-2020 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 2074 by Juvenissun
08-07-2020 6:17 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
Why don't you just give me a dictionary definition of flood and see what I can say?
I did a quick Google, just for you:
quote:
A flood is an overflow of water that submerges land that is usually dry.
I can live with that.
Juvenissun writes:
Do you know what is wrong with those definitions?
They don't give you the conclusions you want?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2074 by Juvenissun, posted 08-07-2020 6:17 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2080 by Juvenissun, posted 08-08-2020 8:10 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2082 of 2370 (880627)
08-08-2020 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2080 by Juvenissun
08-08-2020 8:10 AM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
A river has an annual high water stage. I don't think you want to call it flood.
Sure you do. Even tides have a flood tide.
Juvenissun writes:
The global flood only happened once. So to that definition, the global flood should not be called a flood.
Of course it should. ALL of the land that was usually dry was submerged (in the story, not in reality). You can't get any more floody than that.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2080 by Juvenissun, posted 08-08-2020 8:10 AM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2083 by Juvenissun, posted 08-08-2020 7:22 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 430 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2085 of 2370 (880646)
08-08-2020 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 2083 by Juvenissun
08-08-2020 7:22 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
If a river, or a lake dried up, and later filled with water again, by that definition you have to call it flood.
Yes, that's exactly what we do. We have some salt lakes nearby that are flioded in wet years and dry in dry years.
Juvenissun writes:
Also, heavy rain "flooded" the city street should not be called a flood....
And yet it is. You just called it that yourself. Seems like a pretty useful definition to me.
But what does any of this have to do with your supposed global flood?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2083 by Juvenissun, posted 08-08-2020 7:22 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2088 by Juvenissun, posted 08-09-2020 6:40 AM ringo has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024