Did the Flood really happen?

Only to a few fundamental Christians. Other Christians regard it as a myth and non-Christians have never heard of it. It really isn't very complicated at all, either a global flood occurred or it didn't. If you think it did, then I'm sure you have the evidence to prove it. So give it your best shot. Ok, so you can't say when this flood was. That's a bad start. Are you disputing the normal dates of about 4,500 years ago? It does matter. Many things are possible. Personally I don't think a global flood is one of them, but I'm listening if you can prove it. There are a lot of problems. I think your biggest one is providing the evidence of a global flood at all. You have to show how this is relevant. This is a process that occurs over hundreds of millions of years so you see why it's important for you to say whether you agree with the 'normal' timings for this flood or not.

What has this got to do with a flood?Your flood couldn't have been billions or even millions of years ago, people have only been around as modern H.sapiens for at most 200,000 years and your book has the flood only a few thousand years ago so what is the relevance of all this?

There has never been a global flood - ie a time when all the above water land mass on earth was quickly covered with water then uncovered again.There is some evidence that 3bn years ago most of the earth might have been covered in water, probably with small islands pushing through. The evidence is sparse and requires a lot of further work, but it's an interesting finding.That is not a flood, it's a waterworld and it's irrelevant to your biblical flood story. It doesn't matter what you care about, if you're going to attempt to show that there has been a global flood as written in your bible you're going to have to present the complete case not a tiny bit that you 'care about'.

Neither are complicated and they are the same thing - Noah's flood IS the global flood that you're not talking about. We're not mixing anything, are you or are you not talking about Noah's flood? We're very used to talking about the flood, there's endless threads on it - just get on with it, you'll find us quite capable of keeping up with you so long as you don't carry on obfuscating like this. First, the idea of a water world is not yet established, second those that are proposing it are not suggesting that the entire world was submerged, they imagine many islands - micro-continents - above the water. Third, as far as we know, the continent of Gwandano rose from the oceans as the earth's core cooled about half a billion years ago.There is no flood here nor anything in the supposed timescales of your flood.

Supercontinent name Age (Ma) Period/Era Range Citation
Vaalbara 3,636—2,803 Eoarchean-Mesoarchean
Ur 2,803—2,408 Mesoarchean-Siderian
Kenorland 2,720—2,114 Neoarchean-Rhyacian
Arctica 2,114—1,995 Rhyacian-Orosirian
Atlantica 1,991—1,124 Orosirian-Stenian
Columbia (Nuna) 1,820—1,350 Orosirian-Ectasian
Rodinia 1,130—750 Stenian-Tonian
Pannotia 633—573 Ediacaran
Gondwana 596—578 Ediacaran
Laurasia and Gondwana 472—451 Ordovician
Pangaea 336—173 Carboniferous-JurassicSupercontinent - WikipediaThere's a tradition of creationists coming here, making one line, un-evidenced assertions and arguing disingenuously. It would be great if you didn't turn out to be just another one of them.Make your argument properly in full, up front. Don't avoid questions, don't cherry pick, make your position clear and provide evidence for your claims. This is a science thread - if you continue this way, you'll be banned by the mods.

There are an infinite number of batshit crazy ideas. These are not theoretical models. To build a model, you have to start with some facts that you can show evidentially may be related and relevant to a hypothesis. No! You must start with facts relevant to a hypothesis. So far you haven't given us any evidence or even a timescale that would suggest a global flood. You have to show us the body before you claim Colonel Mustard in the library with a dagger.

My prediction is that Juvenissun will continue in this non-evidential, single sentence trolling manner, avoiding telling us his actual postion or putting his case. But wouldn't it be great if just one of these people decided to discuss this stuff intelligently, openly and honestly?Sadly, Juvenissun is yet another disingenuous young earth creationist.This is his profile from Christian ForumsGeologist.A YEC but work with OE models. No contradiction at all.
Fundamentalist.Build conceptual dynamic modelsjuvenissun | Christian Forums

Well who knows. He claims not to understand the flood geology essay so it seems likely he isn't. But I know an atheist who has a degree in Theology so such things can happen.I just wish the bugger would be honest with us, but that doesn't seem to be a Christian trait. He probably thinks he's playing with devils so shouldn't play fair. Who knows what goes on in these loon's heads

There was only one flood and Noah was there, so we are, after all, talking about Noah's Flood, the one in the bible right?So I'm confused, when was this flood?

Is this an adult science thread or am I back in the playground?So far you haven't presented any evidence of a global flood. How am I supposed to 'admit' a flood happened based on what you've said so far? Make your case.Why are you refusing to talk about when, when when is critical to it having happened? If you're looking for a flood in the geological record, it's best to know where to start.Even so, you say that we won't find this evidence and are claiming that - as far as I understand your strangely obtuse argument so far - you are talking of events possibly billions of years ago.But we know people have been around no more than quarter of a million years and the myth itself is purported to be only 4,000 years ago.You describe yourself (elsewhere) as a YEC. Don't you think it's time you stopped this obfuscation and honestly put forward your whole case so we can have a grown up discussion about it?

The timing of Noah's flood is critical to detecting evidence for it. I'm not talking about time, I'm asking you to tell us where in the geological and archaeological record we should look for it. I don't have to accept anything. You have to make your case, then we can discuss it. That's the way these things work.

I'm an atheist so of course I see the entirety of the story as myth. What does that have to do with you telling us what your case for the Flood is? Then you shouldn't be here wasting our time - the title of this thread is "did the Flood really happen?" and "the Flood" here is Noah's Flood as in the bible story. I do not have to do that, the burden of proof lies with the positive position - "the Flood happened". If you think that the Flood happened, support your case and I'll happily join in; but first you have to tell us your position. Why so shy? This is a recurring phenomenon. YECs come here and obfuscate. What are you trying to hide? Just make your argument, without that we just flounder around talking inanities and silly irrelevant details. Is that your intent - refuse to take on arguments you know you can't win so faff about elsewhere with irrelevancies?The elephant in the room is dating, tell us when this Flood happened and your evidence for that and we can discuss it. This is not a small, tangental point, it's core to this whole debate - as of course you know, which is presumably why you are refusing to discuss it. Which is odd, as you believe that the earth is young - which normally means <10,000, but can be more or less because YECs invent various positions. So what is yours? It is false, the story is quite obviously myth and parable, probably never meant to be taken literally at all. The arguments have been rehearsed here for a decade or more. The new thing is that you've come here and said they're not false but refuse to expose your hand.We do not know what it is that you believe to be true or what we're arguing about. Are you just another troll - it seems so?

Try harder.(But I'm not expecting him to suddenly become honest and actually give us his argument - if he has one.)

Then why ask? It would be really great if you would start. So far all you've said demonstrates that you know nothing of the scientific method and process.I'll give you a couple of pointers. You need to start by telling us fully what your claim about the flood is. (A critical point is when.) You then have to present your evidence for it. Evidence is not coulds and ad hoc individual rationalisations it's a series of empirical observations that build to an explanation of a whole. It needs to include ALL the available observations not a couple of random points. I'm going to take this at face value and accept that you really do think that you're doing science here rather than just trolling. So it's clear that you do not know what the scientific method is. If you think the fact that there is granite here on earth demonstrates a flood you have to explain fully why. Asking me if I know what granite is, is not a scientific argument for anything. Steps of the Scientific MethodI'm not asking for a PhD dissertation, I just need to know what your story actually is and the arguments and evidence supporting it. Just lay it on the table and we can pick somewhere to start.Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

I wonder why we bother with people like you?I gave you the benefit of the doubt, I asked you politely to outline your case and showed you why it was necessary to do it, but it turns out that you are indeed yet another crackpot, fundie troll.Perhaps others here have a better developed sense of masochism; bye for now.