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Ryan Merkle | |
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Author | Topic: Evidence of the flood | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
JonF Member Posts: 6171 Joined: |
That was years ago.
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ringo Member Posts: 18854 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
The Bible is infallible. Therefore, anybody who claims to believe the Bible is infallible.
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Phat Member Posts: 14881 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined:
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This frames the whole controversy over God lying versus mans recording of scripture. jar seems to always claim that God lied and the serpent told the truth, which in my mind is arguably blasphemous. Many obvious questions arise between Biblical Literalists and scholarly (secular) literalists over this. The first question would be whether God exists apart from being a character in a story. Faith and I believe that he does. jar is a Creedal Christian who reads the stories as written, with a bit of Jewish Chutspah from his upbringing as an Episcopal student taught to always question everything and to separate belief from fact and reality. Ringo claims to be an atheist with no axes to grind, Assuming that GOD does in fact exist, the next question would be Gods relationship with human critters throughout History. In a topic titled Evidence Of The Flood the initial premise was that Harvey the Hawk was a bit of evidence of probable interaction and cooperation of animals and humans. Reality suggests that it would be quite a chore to gather up two of every animal from all corners of the planet...unless they plodded, crawled, and flew down to the middle east to get on the boat! The argument can be made that a supernatural God can do anything he wants in any way that He chooses, but the response would be "well then why a flood"? Sounds a bit unnecessary and simplistic for an omnipotent Creator. And why punish the animals for human rebellion and self-will?
Also, I challenge the accusation that Faith is blaspheming the Holy Ghost.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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edge Member (Idle past 459 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
I think you are missing the point. I believe that jar is making use of a strawman argument as a rhetorical tool to make a point. The point is that IF YEC is correct, then it is necessry for God to be a liar. Jar goes further in saying that if the universe is also the work of God, it disagrees with the Bible, so which do you believe? One of the two must be fallacious. In effect, YEC belief CAUSES God to be a liar. It is a logical conclusion. Consequently, it is possible to judge Faith (and other militant adherents to YEC) as blasphemous. The only way out of this is to deny the evidence provided in the works of God. Frankly, I don't think jar cares a hoot about whether God is a liar or not. The point is that YECs have some explaining to do. ABE: On the other hand, I think that the earth may be a bit tricky, but I do not think that it lies. Edited by edge, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
"The only way out of this is to deny the evidence provided in the works of God."
We've already seen this. Faith calls some of what appears to be evidence an illusion. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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RAZD Member (Idle past 158 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Getting no reply from Faith to Message 868 -- more evidence that she just ignores posts that refute her arguments.
Well here's more ... it was even on Fox News: quote: quote: Of particular interest for Faith is the levels of silty sediment on and around the ships, which are in various degrees of being buried ... without rotting and without being flattened. Compare this to the Green River varves gradually covering corpses on the bottom.
These ships are much bigger than the annual deposition of sediment could cover, even 2000 years of annual deposits have not covered them yet, but they are still preserved in good condition ... by the anoxic conditions at the bottom of the black sea. But they have certainly been buried enough to cover a fish corpse. This should put "paid" to her erroneous conclusion that fat fish proved the layers weren't annual and her further leap of faith conclusion that it meant radiometric dating was wrong. This evidence is "proof positive" that organic material can last on the bottom under anoxic conditions for thousands of years, gradually become buried by the slow rain of small particles over millennia, and preserved for future discovery.
It is said that he who laughs last laughs best. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : db Edited by RAZD, : . by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
"If it is undetectable, then it didn't happen."
I wonder what the meaning of such a statement is. Can you detect life on an exoplanet? Since you cannot, should we assume that no life exists on any of them? Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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Percy Member Posts: 19906 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 8.1 |
I think Rrhain would probably draw a distinction between the meaning of “undetectable” he intended and that was discernible from context (not detectable by any means ever), and the meaning of “undetectable” you’re using (not detectable by us at the current time).
—Percy
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Rrhain Member (Idle past 625 days) Posts: 6349 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
NoNukes responds to me:
quote: As Percy pointed out, you are engaging in deliberate obfuscation and disingenuousness. I was very specific about what I meant by "undetectable." Let's try it again since it seems you didn't read my post before you responded:
I've highlighted some relevant portions. Perhaps you'll notice them this time. What do you think they mean? Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 61 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
It may be true.
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ringo Member Posts: 18854 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
First of all, I want to make it clear that I was being ironic. I was citing the beliefs of our member Faith (who is as crazy as a sack of bedbugs), not my own.
If you mean it's difficult to twist the Bible into saying what you want it to say, I agree. It's not that difficult if you accept what it DOES say.
By all means, let's discuss the Bible - but not in this thread. This is a science thread; the Bible carries no weight here. We do have a whole section for Bible discussions. Feel free to contribute to a thread over there or start a new thread. "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 61 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
the Bible says during the global flood, it rains continuously for 40 days and 40 nights. the Bible also says plants are made before the sun is made. I guess you DO have a lot hard science questions to ask. Right? It is so easy to ridicule what said in the Bible, isn't it?
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ringo Member Posts: 18854 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
It isn't about ridiculing the Bible. It's about reading the Bible honestly and with respect for what it is. If it's wrong about something, it's wrong - but we still need to accept what it actually says, not try to twist it into making sense. But as I said, this is not the thread for Bible discussion. "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Juvenissun Member (Idle past 61 days) Posts: 332 Joined: |
You do need a good sense of logic to tell which argument is a twist, or a possible interpretation to scriptures of any religion.
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