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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
PaulK
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Posts: 16454
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1981 of 2012 (880304)
08-01-2020 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1980 by Juvenissun
08-01-2020 10:37 AM


Re: Time scales
quote:
But, like I said, the current landforms are mostly younger than one million years

If you’re going to have a human Noah, your Flood will be less than a million years ago. So that’s a problem for you. Are you really going to make Noah a habiline? An Australopithecine?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1980 by Juvenissun, posted 08-01-2020 10:37 AM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1984 by Juvenissun, posted 08-01-2020 3:01 PM PaulK has responded

  
driewerf
Junior Member
Posts: 17
Joined: 08-14-2010


Message 1982 of 2012 (880305)
08-01-2020 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1899 by Juvenissun
07-27-2020 9:17 PM


quote:
Flood needs water. The earth has a lot of seawater. This satisfies the first requirement.
Of course, there are other requirements. But, in the solar system, the earth is the only place allows a global flood.

Admit that first. This eliminates the statement: the global flood is impossible.



According to a "Oceanography", Paul Pinet, ®1992, West publishing Company, all the seas and oceans combined contain 1.36 million km³ of water.
Taking the Mount Everest at 8 kilometers, and the Earth radius at 6371 km, the volume of the shell, to cover the entire water is given by:
V= 4/3 * Pi* (R³-r³)

Filling in the numbers give a required volume of water of 4 083 570 535 km³. That's more than 4 billion km³. So your claim that there is plenty of water to cover the earth falls short.

Edit: I checked and double checked, the textbook above really says 1.3 million km³. but at least two online sources say 1.3 billion km³
Ocean's Depth and Volume Revealed
Volumes of the World's Oceans from ETOPO1 | NCEI

That is still 4 times more than there is water on earth.

Edited by driewerf, : No reason given.

Edited by driewerf, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1899 by Juvenissun, posted 07-27-2020 9:17 PM Juvenissun has responded

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driewerf
Junior Member
Posts: 17
Joined: 08-14-2010


Message 1983 of 2012 (880306)
08-01-2020 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1922 by Juvenissun
07-29-2020 8:51 PM


Re: Continent growth
quote:
I am talking about the possibility of the global flood. I do not care about other noises. Do you agree that the global flood, at some time in the earth history, is a possibility?

No, you have to produce 4 billion cubic kilometer of extra water for that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1922 by Juvenissun, posted 07-29-2020 8:51 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1985 by Juvenissun, posted 08-01-2020 3:06 PM driewerf has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1984 of 2012 (880311)
08-01-2020 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1981 by PaulK
08-01-2020 11:11 AM


Re: Time scales
If you’re going to have a human Noah, your Flood will be less than a million years ago.

A normal human being is not likely to be 600 years old as Noah was.
The situation was anything but normal.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1981 by PaulK, posted 08-01-2020 11:11 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1986 by PaulK, posted 08-01-2020 3:08 PM Juvenissun has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1985 of 2012 (880312)
08-01-2020 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1983 by driewerf
08-01-2020 11:37 AM


Re: Continent growth
No, you have to produce 4 billion cubic kilometer of extra water for that.

I guess you mean to flood the Himalayas?
It is not needed. There was no Himalayas.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1983 by driewerf, posted 08-01-2020 11:37 AM driewerf has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1990 by driewerf, posted 08-01-2020 4:44 PM Juvenissun has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16454
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1986 of 2012 (880313)
08-01-2020 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1984 by Juvenissun
08-01-2020 3:01 PM


Re: Time scales
quote:
A normal human being is not likely to be 600 years old as Noah was

A early hominid is likely to be even shorter-lived. As well as being considerably less intelligent than the more recent species.

And let us not forget that we are all supposedly descended from Noah.

Of course, Noah’s age is one of the elements that tells us we are dealing with myth, not history. So taking it as fact is a mistake.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1984 by Juvenissun, posted 08-01-2020 3:01 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1988 by Juvenissun, posted 08-01-2020 3:22 PM PaulK has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1987 of 2012 (880314)
08-01-2020 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1982 by driewerf
08-01-2020 11:28 AM


According to a "Oceanography", Paul Pinet, ®1992, West publishing Company, all the seas and oceans combined contain 1.36 million km³ of water.
Taking the Mount Everest at 8 kilometers, and the Earth radius at 6371 km, the volume of the shell, to cover the entire water is given by:
V= 4/3 * Pi* (R³-r³)

The earth had no land and no water on the surface.

The ratio land and water accumulation on the earth is about 990:1 by weight. i.e. to have 1 kg rock (land) on the earth, the same process will only produce about 1 gm water. According to the normal cooling process of the earth, a global size flood is impossible, and we will not have an ocean of the current size.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1982 by driewerf, posted 08-01-2020 11:28 AM driewerf has not yet responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1988 of 2012 (880315)
08-01-2020 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1986 by PaulK
08-01-2020 3:08 PM


Re: Time scales
Noah’s age is one of the elements that tells us we are dealing with myth, not history. So taking it as fact is a mistake.

My whole point till now is to say: Geologically, a global flood is a strong possibility, not a myth.

How to put Noah into the explanation? Since we do not understand how could human live that long, then we have to deal with the problem of TIME, not flood.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1986 by PaulK, posted 08-01-2020 3:08 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1989 by PaulK, posted 08-01-2020 3:40 PM Juvenissun has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16454
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1989 of 2012 (880317)
08-01-2020 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1988 by Juvenissun
08-01-2020 3:22 PM


Re: Time scales
quote:
My whole point till now is to say: Geologically, a global flood is a strong possibility, not a myth.

And you haven’t got to the point where it is anything like a strong possibility. Not to mention that there are other elements of the story that are scientifically problematic.

quote:
How to put Noah into the explanation? Since we do not understand how could human live that long, then we have to deal with the problem of TIME, not flood.

This is a science thread so we can’t just assume that the age attributed to Noah is fact. We must consider other, more reasonable explanations first.

I suspect that most of the old ages in Genesis are a result of confusing months with years. Almost all of them are reasonable if divided by twelve. Noah’s 600 years, then would become 50.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1988 by Juvenissun, posted 08-01-2020 3:22 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1991 by Juvenissun, posted 08-01-2020 8:46 PM PaulK has responded

  
driewerf
Junior Member
Posts: 17
Joined: 08-14-2010


Message 1990 of 2012 (880318)
08-01-2020 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1985 by Juvenissun
08-01-2020 3:06 PM


Re: Continent growth
quote:
quote:
No, you have to produce 4 billion cubic kilometer of extra water for that.

I guess you mean to flood the Himalayas?
It is not needed. There was no Himalayas.

Of course, silly me, floodists can declare a world and natural just as it suits them. A mount Everest that stands in the way, just declare the Himalays gone.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1985 by Juvenissun, posted 08-01-2020 3:06 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1992 by Juvenissun, posted 08-01-2020 8:48 PM driewerf has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1991 of 2012 (880319)
08-01-2020 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1989 by PaulK
08-01-2020 3:40 PM


Re: Time scales
And you haven’t got to the point where it is anything like a strong possibility.

I said and you do not listen.
A lot of water suddenly showed up on the surface of the earth and inundated the low-relief land. This is a nutshell of the story.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1989 by PaulK, posted 08-01-2020 3:40 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1993 by PaulK, posted 08-02-2020 12:54 AM Juvenissun has responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1992 of 2012 (880320)
08-01-2020 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1990 by driewerf
08-01-2020 4:44 PM


Re: Continent growth
Of course, silly me, floodists can declare a world and natural just as it suits them. A mount Everest that stands in the way, just declare the Himalays gone.

Nobody said the Himalayas is gone. I said it has not shown up yet.

Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1990 by driewerf, posted 08-01-2020 4:44 PM driewerf has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1994 by driewerf, posted 08-02-2020 4:11 AM Juvenissun has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16454
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 1993 of 2012 (880321)
08-02-2020 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 1991 by Juvenissun
08-01-2020 8:46 PM


Re: Time scales
quote:
I said and you do not listen.

You vaguely hint rather than say. That’s not a good way to discuss. Also, your posts are way too short and lacking in argument to build a case.

quote:
A lot of water suddenly showed up on the surface of the earth and inundated the low-relief land. This is a nutshell of the story.

Where is the evidence that it happened suddenly?

Where is the evidence that it was sufficient to cover all the land?

Without these you have not established it as a “strong possibility”

And why would we conclude that this flood - if it happened - was Noah’s Flood? Indeed it would seem to more closely match the hypothetical catastrophe proposed by “Gap theory”.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1991 by Juvenissun, posted 08-01-2020 8:46 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1995 by Juvenissun, posted 08-02-2020 8:24 AM PaulK has responded

  
driewerf
Junior Member
Posts: 17
Joined: 08-14-2010


Message 1994 of 2012 (880322)
08-02-2020 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1992 by Juvenissun
08-01-2020 8:48 PM


Re: Continent growth
quote:
Nobody said the Himalayas is gone. I said it has not shown up yet.

As i said, floodists just build a world that suits them, detached from reality.

Edited by driewerf, : No reason given.

Edited by driewerf, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1992 by Juvenissun, posted 08-01-2020 8:48 PM Juvenissun has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1996 by Juvenissun, posted 08-02-2020 8:27 AM driewerf has not yet responded

  
Juvenissun
Member
Posts: 79
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 1995 of 2012 (880323)
08-02-2020 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1993 by PaulK
08-02-2020 12:54 AM


Re: Time scales
Where is the evidence that it happened suddenly?

Where is the evidence that it was sufficient to cover all the land?

Without these you have not established it as a “strong possibility”

And why would we conclude that this flood - if it happened - was Noah’s Flood? Indeed it would seem to more closely match the hypothetical catastrophe proposed by “Gap theory”.

My posts were short because there is no need to give more than what I said. If one can respond to what I said, then I will continue. Otherwise, I won't spend time to say even one word more than needed.

The increase of surface water on the earth has two possible patterns: gradually, include episodic; or suddenly. When consider the processes of water generation, it is more likely the water would first accumulate underground and then suddenly released to the surface.

You can reason or ask question. But it is not appropriate for you to ask evidence. Because you won't understand. For example, one major evidence is that mantle rock of the earth has various amount (but not consistent) of water content. (Do you still like to see the evidence of that? There are tons of petrological papers related to it.)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1993 by PaulK, posted 08-02-2020 12:54 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1997 by PaulK, posted 08-02-2020 8:37 AM Juvenissun has responded

  
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