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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9580
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 6.6


(2)
Message 2026 of 2370 (880410)
08-05-2020 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 2023 by Juvenissun
08-05-2020 8:07 AM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
You do have show where you stand in a discussion. Otherwise, what am I going to talk to you?
I'm an atheist so of course I see the entirety of the story as myth. What does that have to do with you telling us what your case for the Flood is?
I don't have to convince you Noah's Flood did happen.
Then you shouldn't be here wasting our time - the title of this thread is "did the Flood really happen?" and "the Flood" here is Noah's Flood as in the bible story.
What you should say is: I don't believe Noah's story "because...", then I can focus my idea on that.
I do not have to do that, the burden of proof lies with the positive position - "the Flood happened". If you think that the Flood happened, support your case and I'll happily join in; but first you have to tell us your position. Why so shy?
I walked into this thread in a same way. I pointed out errors suggested by you people. That means, you have said something first which I don't agree. It is you who attacked the Bible message first, then I defended it. If you do not attack, then I don't have to talk you.
This is a recurring phenomenon. YECs come here and obfuscate. What are you trying to hide? Just make your argument, without that we just flounder around talking inanities and silly irrelevant details. Is that your intent - refuse to take on arguments you know you can't win so faff about elsewhere with irrelevancies?
The elephant in the room is dating, tell us when this Flood happened and your evidence for that and we can discuss it. This is not a small, tangental point, it's core to this whole debate - as of course you know, which is presumably why you are refusing to discuss it. Which is odd, as you believe that the earth is young - which normally means <10,000, but can be more or less because YECs invent various positions. So what is yours?
You said: All that is false. Then I reply: Why?
It is false, the story is quite obviously myth and parable, probably never meant to be taken literally at all. The arguments have been rehearsed here for a decade or more. The new thing is that you've come here and said they're not false but refuse to expose your hand.
We do not know what it is that you believe to be true or what we're arguing about. Are you just another troll - it seems so?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2023 by Juvenissun, posted 08-05-2020 8:07 AM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2027 by Phat, posted 08-05-2020 2:13 PM Tangle has replied
 Message 2033 by Juvenissun, posted 08-05-2020 7:25 PM Tangle has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18633
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 2027 of 2370 (880418)
08-05-2020 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 2026 by Tangle
08-05-2020 8:40 AM


Critical Thinkers, Trolls,Atheists & Believers
Tangle, to Juvenissun writes:
I'm an atheist so of course I see the entirety of the story as myth. What does that have to do with you telling us what your case for the Flood is?
What I'm trying to get him to see is the different thought process demanded in our Science Forums.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killosophy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2026 by Tangle, posted 08-05-2020 8:40 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2030 by Tangle, posted 08-05-2020 3:13 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 2032 by jar, posted 08-05-2020 5:18 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 2038 by Juvenissun, posted 08-05-2020 7:58 PM Phat has not replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1559 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2028 of 2370 (880420)
08-05-2020 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2024 by PaulK
08-05-2020 8:12 AM


Re: Time scales
what explanation do you have as you admit that there is too much water.
Because the earth has way way more granitic rock than ANY planets/satellites have in the solar system. (I guess you are confused again. Sorry, the story is too long. What I said is a condensed conclusion)
A piece of knowledge for you: Granite is the rock which squeezed out almost all the water currently on the surface of earth.
Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2024 by PaulK, posted 08-05-2020 8:12 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2029 by PaulK, posted 08-05-2020 3:08 PM Juvenissun has replied
 Message 2034 by DrJones*, posted 08-05-2020 7:35 PM Juvenissun has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17909
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 6.8


(1)
Message 2029 of 2370 (880421)
08-05-2020 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 2028 by Juvenissun
08-05-2020 2:39 PM


Re: Time scales
quote:
Because the earth has way way more granitic rock than ANY planets/satellites have in the solar system. (I guess you are confused again. Sorry, the story is too long. What I said is a condensed conclusion)
Even if it is true (and granites are known elsewhere), that is not valid argument. That there is more on Earth than elsewhere does not mean that there is enough on Earth.
So it seems that you are the one who is confused.
And I note that you offer no evidence at all for your supposed alternative mechanism, so I guess that is another fantasy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2028 by Juvenissun, posted 08-05-2020 2:39 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2037 by Juvenissun, posted 08-05-2020 7:55 PM PaulK has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9580
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 6.6


(2)
Message 2030 of 2370 (880422)
08-05-2020 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 2027 by Phat
08-05-2020 2:13 PM


Re: Critical Thinkers, Trolls,Atheists & Believers
Phat writes:
What I'm trying to get him to see is the different thought process demanded in our Science Forums.
Try harder.
(But I'm not expecting him to suddenly become honest and actually give us his argument - if he has one.)

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2027 by Phat, posted 08-05-2020 2:13 PM Phat has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 985 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 2031 of 2370 (880423)
08-05-2020 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 2018 by Juvenissun
08-04-2020 7:50 PM


Re: Time scales
Why does anyone need to consider whether Noah lived to an age of 600 years? Dumuzid the Shepherd reigned over Sumeria for 36,000 years, and that was before the Sumerian Flood. Jushur lived right after that flood, and was in office for 1200 years. What about them? What about a little basic biology, which rules out absurdly long lifespans like any of these?
And don’t get me started on the geological history of Venus. You know it never had water how, exactly? Bald assertion?

"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2018 by Juvenissun, posted 08-04-2020 7:50 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2035 by Juvenissun, posted 08-05-2020 7:38 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 90 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2032 of 2370 (880424)
08-05-2020 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 2027 by Phat
08-05-2020 2:13 PM


Re: Critical Thinkers, Trolls,Atheists & Believers
Phat writes:
What I'm trying to get him to see is the different thought process demanded in our Science Forums.
It's not different thought processes Phat, it is that those who believe such nonsense as the Biblical Flood simply have never learned how to think. He is quite frankly just incapable of thought or honesty or reality.
It's pitiful but true.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2027 by Phat, posted 08-05-2020 2:13 PM Phat has not replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1559 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2033 of 2370 (880427)
08-05-2020 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2026 by Tangle
08-05-2020 8:40 AM


Re: Time scales
I'm an atheist so of course I see the entirety of the story as myth. What does that have to do with you telling us what your case for the Flood is?
I never bother if you are a Christian or not. I was and am talking to you about science. It is YOU who avoid the hard science and want to bring the easy religious stuff to the discussion.
So far, I only see I am trying to talk about science. Where have you said anything about science? Do you know what a granite is? Do you know it is related to the global flood?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2026 by Tangle, posted 08-05-2020 8:40 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2046 by Tangle, posted 08-06-2020 2:34 AM Juvenissun has replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2338
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 7.9


Message 2034 of 2370 (880428)
08-05-2020 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2028 by Juvenissun
08-05-2020 2:39 PM


Re: Time scales
Because the earth has way way more granitic rock than ANY planets/satellites have in the solar system
really? when did you complete your geological survey of the solar system?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2028 by Juvenissun, posted 08-05-2020 2:39 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2036 by Juvenissun, posted 08-05-2020 7:42 PM DrJones* has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1559 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2035 of 2370 (880429)
08-05-2020 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 2031 by Coragyps
08-05-2020 4:32 PM


Re: Time scales
Why does anyone need to consider whether Noah lived to an age of 600 years?
It is either correct or not correct. It is not a right age, then why would the 6000 years age of the earth be right? Why must the global flood be a recent geological event?
If it a right age, then the current biological knowledge is wrong. If that is true, then what is the point to insist Noah has to be one lived in the time frame of human history as we know it?
Now you see the reason of considering the Noah's age together with the timing of global flood.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2031 by Coragyps, posted 08-05-2020 4:32 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2042 by PaulK, posted 08-06-2020 12:03 AM Juvenissun has not replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1559 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2036 of 2370 (880430)
08-05-2020 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 2034 by DrJones*
08-05-2020 7:35 PM


Re: Time scales
really? when did you complete your geological survey of the solar system?
We knows A LOT about the solar system BEFORE we even move one human step out of the earth. That is the power of geology.
Consider yourself learn an important fact of astrogeology: Earth has the highest amount of granite in the solar system.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2034 by DrJones*, posted 08-05-2020 7:35 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2039 by DrJones*, posted 08-05-2020 7:59 PM Juvenissun has not replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1559 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2037 of 2370 (880431)
08-05-2020 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 2029 by PaulK
08-05-2020 3:08 PM


Re: Time scales
Even if it is true (and granites are known elsewhere), that is not valid argument. That there is more on Earth than elsewhere does not mean that there is enough on Earth.
Tell me which planet/satellite in the solar system has granite on it. I will surrender to you if you can find one.
Do you even know how much water stored in 1 kg of granite? In fact, granite is one of the largest water reservoir on the earth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2029 by PaulK, posted 08-05-2020 3:08 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2040 by Coragyps, posted 08-05-2020 8:39 PM Juvenissun has replied
 Message 2041 by Pollux, posted 08-05-2020 10:17 PM Juvenissun has not replied
 Message 2043 by PaulK, posted 08-06-2020 12:10 AM Juvenissun has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1559 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2038 of 2370 (880432)
08-05-2020 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 2027 by Phat
08-05-2020 2:13 PM


Re: Critical Thinkers, Trolls,Atheists & Believers
What I'm trying to get him to see is the different thought process demanded in our Science Forums.
I know that process. What I am trying to do is to make one feel shame or inferior in operating that process.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2027 by Phat, posted 08-05-2020 2:13 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2044 by PaulK, posted 08-06-2020 12:13 AM Juvenissun has replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2338
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 7.9


Message 2039 of 2370 (880433)
08-05-2020 7:59 PM
Reply to: Message 2036 by Juvenissun
08-05-2020 7:42 PM


Re: Time scales
Earth has the highest amount of granite in the solar system.
prove it

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2036 by Juvenissun, posted 08-05-2020 7:42 PM Juvenissun has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2045 by dwise1, posted 08-06-2020 12:38 AM DrJones* has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 985 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 2040 of 2370 (880434)
08-05-2020 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2037 by Juvenissun
08-05-2020 7:55 PM


Re: Time scales
Do YOU know how much water is stored in a kilogram of a typical granite, Juve? How easily can you, or Mother Nature, get it out of there?
Donald Trump may be more arrogant than you, but only on a day when he’s on top of his game.....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2037 by Juvenissun, posted 08-05-2020 7:55 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2047 by Juvenissun, posted 08-06-2020 9:34 AM Coragyps has not replied

  
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