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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2101 of 2370 (880712)
08-09-2020 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 2099 by ringo
08-09-2020 3:17 PM


Re: Time scales
Maybe not. But what I ask floodists is: How do you distinguish one big flood from lots of little floods? The evidence that we have is all we have to go on, so how does that evidence point to one big flood?
Those erosional and depositional features will not exist long. We need to think about something larger and more permanent. The oceanic water and oceanic basins ARE the evidences.
Edited by Juvenissun, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2099 by ringo, posted 08-09-2020 3:17 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2102 by ringo, posted 08-09-2020 9:36 PM Juvenissun has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2102 of 2370 (880714)
08-09-2020 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 2101 by Juvenissun
08-09-2020 9:30 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
Those erosional and depositional features will not exist long.
Why not?
Juvenissun writes:
The oceanic water and oceanic basins ARE the evidences.
How are they evidence?
You need to do more than just post random opinions. You need to back up what you say.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2101 by Juvenissun, posted 08-09-2020 9:30 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2103 by Juvenissun, posted 08-10-2020 7:13 AM ringo has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2103 of 2370 (880717)
08-10-2020 7:13 AM
Reply to: Message 2102 by ringo
08-09-2020 9:36 PM


Re: Time scales
Flood deposits are loose sediments, they will be quickly washed away.
Flood entrench channels will last longer. But they will also be eroded away within one million years or so.
I am repeating what I said. There is no qualified question to push me say anything more than that. It is not what I don't say. It is what you don't ask. I am NOT going to give any more information which you do not understand.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2102 by ringo, posted 08-09-2020 9:36 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2104 by ringo, posted 08-10-2020 12:10 PM Juvenissun has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2104 of 2370 (880720)
08-10-2020 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 2103 by Juvenissun
08-10-2020 7:13 AM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
Flood deposits are loose sediments, they will be quickly washed away.
And they'll be deposited somewhere else.
Juvenissun writes:
Flood entrench channels will last longer. But they will also be eroded away within one million years or so.
Who's talking about a million years? The flood only lasted one year. And it couldn't have been more than a quarter-million years ago because there were no people.
Juvenissun writes:
I am repeating what I said. There is no qualified question to push me say anything more than that. It is not what I don't say. It is what you don't ask.
If I ask and you don't answer, that's a reflection on you, not on me. If you don't answer, it looks like you don't know.
Juvenissun writes:
I am NOT going to give any more information which you do not understand.
Then you're wasting your time here.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2103 by Juvenissun, posted 08-10-2020 7:13 AM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2105 by Juvenissun, posted 08-10-2020 5:25 PM ringo has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2105 of 2370 (880730)
08-10-2020 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2104 by ringo
08-10-2020 12:10 PM


Re: Time scales
And they'll be deposited somewhere else.
Then you will not recognize it as flood sediments.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2104 by ringo, posted 08-10-2020 12:10 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2106 by ringo, posted 08-11-2020 8:43 AM Juvenissun has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2106 of 2370 (880750)
08-11-2020 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 2105 by Juvenissun
08-10-2020 5:25 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
ringo writes:
And they'll be deposited somewhere else.
Then you will not recognize it as flood sediments.
Why not? They're still deposited during the Flood.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2105 by Juvenissun, posted 08-10-2020 5:25 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2107 by Juvenissun, posted 08-11-2020 9:05 AM ringo has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2107 of 2370 (880755)
08-11-2020 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 2106 by ringo
08-11-2020 8:43 AM


Re: Time scales
Why not? They're still deposited during the Flood.
Sediments deposited during the global flood are no different from any sediments we can see in our normal environment. Gravel, sand, mud, etc. The only way to tell that they are flood sediments is to look at their depositional structure. So, once the original deposit is moved (eroded and redeposited), the original structure is destroyed. They can not be recognized as flood sediments any more (they become river sediments or lake sediments or marine sediments etc. )
I always try to answer genuine questions. Otherwise, may be not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2106 by ringo, posted 08-11-2020 8:43 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2108 by ringo, posted 08-11-2020 9:17 AM Juvenissun has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2108 of 2370 (880758)
08-11-2020 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 2107 by Juvenissun
08-11-2020 9:05 AM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
Sediments deposited during the global flood are no different from any sediments we can see in our normal environment.
They should be. They should be much more widespread than river sediments or lake sediments. Even if there is no single contiguous layer that covers the whole earth, there should be vast areas that are easily distinguishable from lake sediments and river sediments.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2107 by Juvenissun, posted 08-11-2020 9:05 AM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2109 by Juvenissun, posted 08-11-2020 12:05 PM ringo has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2109 of 2370 (880765)
08-11-2020 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 2108 by ringo
08-11-2020 9:17 AM


Re: Time scales
They should be. They should be much more widespread than river sediments or lake sediments. Even if there is no single contiguous layer that covers the whole earth, there should be vast areas that are easily distinguishable from lake sediments and river sediments.
No. They are normal material. Once relocated, they don't have any tag to show the origin.
However, your idea is good. There might be something in the sediments which can be used as a tag of the global flood. We do not know what it is. But this thread may deserve some study. However, it is not likely to find any support for the project.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2108 by ringo, posted 08-11-2020 9:17 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2110 by ringo, posted 08-11-2020 12:16 PM Juvenissun has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2110 of 2370 (880767)
08-11-2020 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 2109 by Juvenissun
08-11-2020 12:05 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
Once relocated, they don't have any tag to show the origin.
Sure they do. The chemical composition will give clues to where they came from. A flood is not a magic eraser that removes all evidence.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2109 by Juvenissun, posted 08-11-2020 12:05 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2111 by Juvenissun, posted 08-11-2020 8:31 PM ringo has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2111 of 2370 (880811)
08-11-2020 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 2110 by ringo
08-11-2020 12:16 PM


Re: Time scales
Sure they do. The chemical composition will give clues to where they came from. A flood is not a magic eraser that removes all evidence.
Think: where did those sediments come from? They were sediments on the ground BEFORE the Flood. Why would they be different from other sediments on the ground?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2110 by ringo, posted 08-11-2020 12:16 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2112 by ringo, posted 08-11-2020 9:46 PM Juvenissun has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2112 of 2370 (880822)
08-11-2020 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 2111 by Juvenissun
08-11-2020 8:31 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
Think: where did those sediments come from? They were sediments on the ground BEFORE the Flood.
Some of them were eroded BY the flood.
Juvenissun writes:
Why would they be different from other sediments on the ground?
Because different sediments come from different formations. Some of them come from sandstone, some come from limestone, etc.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2111 by Juvenissun, posted 08-11-2020 8:31 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2113 by Juvenissun, posted 08-12-2020 7:57 AM ringo has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2113 of 2370 (880831)
08-12-2020 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 2112 by ringo
08-11-2020 9:46 PM


Re: Time scales
They are normal sediments just like sediments laid down everywhere and every day.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2112 by ringo, posted 08-11-2020 9:46 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2114 by ringo, posted 08-12-2020 12:11 PM Juvenissun has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 440 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 2114 of 2370 (880840)
08-12-2020 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 2113 by Juvenissun
08-12-2020 7:57 AM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
They are normal sediments just like sediments laid down everywhere and every day.
That doesn't seem likely. The amount of sediment depends on how much material was in the water, how much water there was and for how long, etc. The Bible Flood would have had vast amounts of material in vast amounts of water settling out for a long time. We would expect a very deep set of layers to form before the water receded. The receding water would erode the fesh sediment to some extent but not enough to remove all traces.
It seems like you're just making excuses for the fact that there IS no evidence of the Flood.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2113 by Juvenissun, posted 08-12-2020 7:57 AM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2115 by Juvenissun, posted 08-12-2020 8:06 PM ringo has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2115 of 2370 (880857)
08-12-2020 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 2114 by ringo
08-12-2020 12:11 PM


Re: Time scales
That doesn't seem likely. The amount of sediment depends on how much material was in the water, how much water there was and for how long, etc. The Bible Flood would have had vast amounts of material in vast amounts of water settling out for a long time. We would expect a very deep set of layers to form before the water receded. The receding water would erode the fesh sediment to some extent but not enough to remove all traces.
It is quite amusing to see a layman's argument on geological process.
How much sediments is available for deposition? They are in the same amount as the current soil on the surface. More precisely, they are the part of pebble, sand in the soil. The mud in the soil will suspend in water and be carried to the ocean and deposited in the ocean.
So if you average out the amount of soil material and re-pave it on the surface, it would be much. May be a foot?
How do I explain to you that loose sediments DO NOT stay on land for long (say, 100 years)? How about rain. Rain will easily wash them around and eroded them away, or redistribute them to river channel.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2114 by ringo, posted 08-12-2020 12:11 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2116 by Coragyps, posted 08-12-2020 8:15 PM Juvenissun has replied
 Message 2118 by ringo, posted 08-13-2020 12:39 PM Juvenissun has replied

  
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