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Author | Topic: I Know That God Does Not Exist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 596 days) Posts: 826 Joined:
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But what is your concept of a god? If you believe in a god because you have experienced it, that is logical, in the sense that you have sensed it and so think it is there. That's fine, so far as it goes.
But what is god? The god of Moses? The god of the KJV? The god as conceived by the deists who founded the United States? We must know what a thing is before we can decide whether or not it is logical.
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FLRW Member (Idle past 477 days) Posts: 73 Joined: |
The word 'God' is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation, no matter how subtle, can (for me) change this.- Albert Einstein 1954
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.5 |
Hi Phat,
Phat writes: To some, a universe that began with nothing more than chemicals makes more sense than a Creator. Phat what chemicals are you talking about? You have heard as many times as I have that there is nothing outside of the universe. Meaning it was a self contained universe as cavediver told us. So logically speaking there was non existence. Logically if there is non existence there is no universe to expand. That means Stephen Hawking was wrong when he concluded he had proved there was no need for a God. Logically speaking no God no universe, but we are here. Positive proof that there is a God. God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
EvC Forum: the day the sun danced in the sky
you know that God does not exist, but I know he does. he reveals himself to those who would dare to think as children, to be radically open to a loving god, to be radically open to love. to see god you have to learn to see through your heart.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
I have asked you many times to specify which rules of logic are broken by the idea of God. Something that is illogical is something that breaks the rules of logic. Conclusions that arise from false premises or that depend on logical fallacies are illogical. It would be illogical to conclude that all dogs are brown from the premise that one dog is brown. Could you give me an example of a thing ... which you would consider illogical? So again, what rules of logic does the idea of God violate?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 596 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
A person who sees thin ice, thinner than ice that, in their experience, people have always fallen through, nevertheless says, "I'm going to walk across this!" Is that "illogical" in your way of thinking, or just "wrong" because there's no specific fallacy or something else in the philosophical jargon that is involved here, however irrational the situation?
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 596 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
But be careful about quoting famous people!
Shockley (to take an example of another famous scientist) may have been a genius, but his views on some issues were not ones you'd want to quote.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Sarah Bellum writes:
First, let me point out that I'm Canadian, so thin ice is my natural habitat. A person who sees thin ice, thinner than ice that, in their experience, people have always fallen through, nevertheless says, "I'm going to walk across this!"(And I've been waiting for years to do thay joke.) Sarah Bellum writes:
On the face of it, it is neither illogical nor wrong nor irrational. A good reason for crossing thin ice might be the polar bear trying to eat you. And it is possible to minimize the danger when crossing thin ice.
Is that "illogical" in your way of thinking, or just "wrong"... Sarah Bellum writes:
"Illogical" pretty much does require a specific violation of logic. ... because there's no specific fallacy or something else in the philosophical jargon that is involved here, however irrational the situation?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Sarah Bellum Member (Idle past 596 days) Posts: 826 Joined: |
Hmm. Interesting.
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Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days) Posts: 1928 Joined:
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Jaggerstatter knew that God does exist and he died for it in a concentration camp. Would you be willing to die for your belief that God does not exist? Because the martyrs have died for their belief that God does exist. Jagerstatter died in a concentration camp because of his belief in Jesus Christ. All of your intellectual wrangling is all but dead leaves to the sacrifice of jagerstatter
Edited by proudly roman catholic, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
ICANT writes: This is ringos argument, not mine. I have absolutely no problem with a Universe that began due to the Will of a Creator. Hawking did and ringo does. The man seeks evidence for his very own intelligence. He *used* to be a believer and yet claims that he "outgrew" this childish conclusion. Phat what chemicals are you talking about? Whenever I start an argument by saying "some say that..." I am usually talking about our secular peanut gellery here at the Forum. They will even claim that I have no argument but only an assertion. They insist that we need evidence in order to have an argument...which I will agree with in a science forum argument but not so much in a Faith based argument. The soapbox critics here at EvC do not realize that "In The Berginning..Chemicals" is as much made up as any God hypothesis. Unless they are inferring the chemicals in their own minds! Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
proud roman catholic writes:
Jews also died in concentration camps. Jehovah's Witnesses also died in concentration camps. People dying for different gods doesn't prove that any of those gods are real. Because the martyrs have died for their belief that God does exist."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
No I don't. Will you ever stop telling that lie?
I have absolutely no problem with a Universe that began due to the Will of a Creator. Hawking did and ringo does. Phat writes:
There's no need for the mocking tone. That's the only thing in your post that you got right: same as you used to believe in Santa Claus and outgrew that childish conclusion.
He *used* to be a believer and yet claims that he "outgrew" this childish conclusion. Phat writes:
Nonsense. Chemicals are not made up. The soapbox critics here at EvC do not realize that "In The Berginning..Chemicals" is as much made up as any God hypothesis."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: I have absolutely no problem with a Universe that began due to the Will of a Creator. Hawking did and ringo does. Hawking did not believe that the universe had a creator, he was an atheist. Why do you just keep on making up stuff that seems to suit you? Why not at least check?
quote: Stephen Hawking Was an Atheist: His Words on Death and God | TimeJe suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
That's the only thing in your post that you got right: same as you used to believe in Santa Claus and outgrew that childish conclusion. Creator of all seen and unseen is hardly on the same level as Santa Claus. You make the mistake of placing all myths on the same shelf. Ask yourself if it is logical for the shelf to have always existed. We know that it is illogical for humans to have always existed yet with our nifty little chemically formed minds we dare speculate, quantify and objectify everything around us except a Creator, which we quite naturally find illogical and unnecessary. Funny how we never conclude the same thing about our own minds.
Chemicals are not made up. Yet the idea that chemicals were the first thing around is illogical. If they were all packed tightly in a singularity, they obviously were not involved in the process that formed the singularity itself. No science experiment involves every chemical ever known randomly in the same space."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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