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Author Topic:   Miracle Of The Sun & Other Musings
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 46 of 327 (880953)
08-15-2020 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by jar
08-13-2020 11:55 AM


Re: About Popes And Presidents
jar writes:
Since when has there ever been ANY absolute truth?
John 14:6-7 writes:
6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
Thats about as absolute as it gets. Feel free to dismiss the redactors, but they had no ulterior motive. They were in my opinion divinely inspired to report the absolute truth.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killosophy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 08-13-2020 11:55 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by jar, posted 08-15-2020 7:53 AM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 47 of 327 (880955)
08-15-2020 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Phat
08-15-2020 7:41 AM


Taking pieces parts out but claiming you don't.
Phat writes:
jar writes:
Since when has there ever been ANY absolute truth?
John 14:6-7 writes:
6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
Thats about as absolute as it gets. Feel free to dismiss the redactors, but they had no ulterior motive. They were in my opinion divinely inspired to report the absolute truth.
But the quote you and so many Apologists love to take out of context and throw around actually says NOTHING.
It is not some absolute or even some truth.
What truth is involved?
Why is the statement in direct contradiction of so many other statements alleged to have been made by Jesus?
The issue is that you and the Apologists love to claim that the Bible is some whole yet also love to take pieces parts out of it and try to make them stand alone.
You guys love always having it two or more ways as long as the pieces parts you pull out of context support the position you happen to be marketing at that moment.
If the authors and editors and redactors were divinely inspired to report the absolute truth why are there so many outright falsehoods, fantasies and contradictions in the report?
Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 08-15-2020 7:41 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Phat, posted 08-15-2020 8:11 AM jar has not replied
 Message 49 by Phat, posted 08-15-2020 8:13 AM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 48 of 327 (880956)
08-15-2020 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by jar
08-15-2020 7:53 AM


Re: About Popes And Presidents
jar writes:
What truth is involved?
If Jesus were simply human, no truth is involved. But note what Jesus said to Pilate:
John 18:28-39 writes:
28 Then the Jews led Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning, and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness the Jews did not enter the palace; they wanted to be able to eat the Passover. 29 So Pilate came out to them and asked, "What charges are you bringing against this man?"
30 "If he were not a criminal," they replied, "we would not have handed him over to you."
31 Pilate said, "Take him yourselves and judge him by your own law."
"But we have no right to execute anyone," the Jews objected. 32 This happened so that the words Jesus had spoken indicating the kind of death he was going to die would be fulfilled.
33 Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, "Are you the king of the Jews?"
34 "Is that your own idea," Jesus asked, "or did others talk to you about me?"
35 "Am I a Jew?" Pilate replied. "It was your people and your chief priests who handed you over to me. What is it you have done?"
36 Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."
37 "You are a king, then!" said Pilate.
Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."
38 "What is truth?" Pilate asked. With this he went out again to the Jews and said, "I find no basis for a charge against him. 39 But it is your custom for me to release to you one prisoner at the time of the Passover. Do you want me to release 'the king of the Jews'?"
See, you kinda get the message and you kinda dont. You have claimed before that Jesus was a failed Messiah. You have said that Christianity is about what we do. What we are charged to do, among other things, is to know the truth. Do you disagree with this? Hint: You wont find the truth in a secular class taught by Socratic Masters urging you to study human history and comparative religions and forming a consensus of beliefs which seem logical.
Prov 14:12-16 writes:
12 There is a way that seems right to a man,
but in the end it leads to death.
13 Even in laughter the heart may ache,
and joy may end in grief.
14 The faithless will be fully repaid for their ways,
and the good man rewarded for his.
15 A simple man believes anything,
but a prudent man gives thought to his steps.
16 A wise man fears the LORD and shuns evil,
but a fool is hotheaded and reckless.
The apologists teach that Jesus is the only way. Not Allah. Not the spaghetti monster. and certainly not Loki.
You mention that you essentially follow logic, reason, and reality. To that list you need to add truth. Truth is a person.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killosophy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by jar, posted 08-15-2020 7:53 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by ringo, posted 08-15-2020 9:47 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 49 of 327 (880957)
08-15-2020 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by jar
08-15-2020 7:53 AM


Re: Taking pieces parts out but claiming you don't.
jar writes:
If the authors and editors and redactors were divinely inspired to report the absolute truth why are there so many outright falsehoods, fantasies and contradictions in the report?
Because we see what we want to see to support our position. You do the same thing, which is why you love Matthew 24.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killosophy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by jar, posted 08-15-2020 7:53 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by jar, posted 08-15-2020 8:30 AM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 50 of 327 (880958)
08-15-2020 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Phat
08-15-2020 8:13 AM


Re: Taking pieces parts out but claiming you don't.
Two replies and still you present no evidence or reasoned arguments or address the issues I raise.
AbE:
Phat, this really is an important issue.
You and the Apologists claim that the Bible is divinely inspired and that what is written shows Absolute Truth.
BUT, the reality is as has been pointed out to you many times that the Bible contains errors, contradictions, evidence of evolving mythos and revisionism.
Neither you or ANY Apologists ever address that issue.
Many of us though point out that what is actually written is evidence of human creation rather than divine inspiration and that assertion explains why there are errors, contradictions, evidence of evolving mythos and revisionism.
Edited by jar, : see AbE:

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Phat, posted 08-15-2020 8:13 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 08-16-2020 3:26 PM jar has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 51 of 327 (880964)
08-15-2020 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Phat
08-15-2020 8:11 AM


Re: About Popes And Presidents
Phat writes:
The apologists teach that Jesus is the only way. Not Allah. Not the spaghetti monster. and certainly not Loki.
The apologists ARE Loki.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Phat, posted 08-15-2020 8:11 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 52 of 327 (881019)
08-16-2020 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by jar
08-15-2020 8:30 AM


Re: Taking pieces parts out but claiming you don't.
jar writes:
Phat, this really is an important issue.
You and the Apologists claim that the Bible is divinely inspired and that what is written shows Absolute Truth.
BUT, the reality is as has been pointed out to you many times that the Bible contains errors, contradictions, evidence of evolving mythos and revisionism.
Neither you or ANY Apologists ever address that issue.
Many of us though point out that what is actually written is evidence of human creation rather than divine inspiration and that assertion explains why there are errors, contradictions, evidence of evolving mythos and revisionism.
Perhaps we dont accept the premises because we certainly dont accept your conclusions.
You need to ask yourselves why it is so important for you to push the concept and belief of God back into an unknown (forever unknown) corner. Why it is useful for you to "prove" that Jesus (as marketed) never existed. How it does not really matter anyway since humans are our own belief within ourselves. How a brilliant man of studies, using only physics and numbers, can hypothesize a universe that arose out of nothing. You always value CONTENT over SOURCE, but in this case you need to be honest about the SOURCE you are marketing and the SOURCE that you are attempting to discredit. WHY are you driven to do this? It certainly is not in the name of TRUTH. You rejected truth a long time ago.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killosophy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by jar, posted 08-15-2020 8:30 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by jar, posted 08-16-2020 3:46 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 53 of 327 (881024)
08-16-2020 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Phat
08-16-2020 3:26 PM


Re: Taking pieces parts out but claiming you don't.
Sheesh Phat.
You have absolutely no idea of what truth is and have decided that you will simply ignore truth whenever it makes you feel uncomfortable. You have decided to accept lies rather than truth and fantasy rather than reality.
You and the Apologists claim that the Bible is divinely inspired and that what is written shows Absolute Truth.
BUT, the reality is, as has been pointed out to you many times, that the Bible contains errors, contradictions, evidence of evolving mythos and revisionism.
Neither you or ANY Apologists ever address that issue.
Many of us though point out that what is actually written is evidence of human creation rather than divine inspiration and that assertion explains why there are errors, contradictions, evidence of evolving mythos and revisionism.
If you want to dispute that conclusion then you will have to present either evidence or reasoned argument to support your position.
Good luck.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Phat, posted 08-16-2020 3:26 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 54 of 327 (881046)
08-17-2020 12:11 AM


the most powerful chapter in the bible

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


(1)
Message 55 of 327 (881049)
08-17-2020 12:31 AM


from the catechism of the church
WHAT IS PRAYER?
For me, prayer is a surge of the heart;
it is a simple look turned toward heaven,
it is a cry of recognition and of love,
embracing both trial and joy.1-st therese of lisieux
Prayer as God's gift
2559 "Prayer is the raising of one's mind and heart to God or the requesting of good things from God."2
But when we pray, do we speak from the height of our pride and will, or "out of the depths" of a humble and contrite heart?3
He who humbles himself will be exalted;4 humility is the foundation of prayer,
Only when we humbly acknowledge that "we do not know how to pray as we ought,"5 are we ready to receive freely the gift of prayer.
"Man is a beggar before God."6 -st augustine
Edited by proudly roman catholic, : attribute

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Tangle, posted 08-17-2020 2:38 AM Trump won has not replied
 Message 57 by Coragyps, posted 08-17-2020 2:53 PM Trump won has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 56 of 327 (881053)
08-17-2020 2:38 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Trump won
08-17-2020 12:31 AM


Re: from the catechism of the church
Please do your preaching and grovelling in your church, this is not the place for it.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Trump won, posted 08-17-2020 12:31 AM Trump won has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 57 of 327 (881078)
08-17-2020 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Trump won
08-17-2020 12:31 AM


Re: from the catechism of the church
Any significant surge of the heart could require a cardiologist’s attention, prc. Be careful.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Trump won, posted 08-17-2020 12:31 AM Trump won has not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


(1)
Message 58 of 327 (881085)
08-17-2020 10:49 PM


Romans 8:26, NIV: "In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans." ... For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words."

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


(1)
Message 59 of 327 (881087)
08-17-2020 11:10 PM


why would god use a sinner like donald trump? oh wait

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


(1)
Message 60 of 327 (881088)
08-17-2020 11:31 PM


an insect with literal working gears

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2020 4:53 AM Trump won has not replied

  
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