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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2559 of 3207 (880987)
08-16-2020 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 2557 by Tangle
08-15-2020 5:04 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi Tangle,
You said the universe created itself.
Now you are telling me:
Tangle writes:
No.
Make up your mind and get back to me.
Tangle writes:
Don't be ridiculous, if I could I wouldn't be here and you couldn't possibly understand it.
Oh I think if you could explain how the universe could create itself I could understand it. I probably would not believe it. But that would not stop me from understanding your explanation.
The first thing you would have to do is get rid of the laws of thermodynamics.
Then you would have to figure out how to get the universe to exist when there was non existence. The universe would have to exist in order to create itself.
You better get yourself a big glass of that special kool aid before you start on that one.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2557 by Tangle, posted 08-15-2020 5:04 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2561 by Tangle, posted 08-16-2020 3:17 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2560 of 3207 (880988)
08-16-2020 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 2558 by ringo
08-15-2020 9:22 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
As I said, we can not "see" as far back in time as T=0,
What part of time does not exist do you not understand?
That is what T=0 represents.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2558 by ringo, posted 08-15-2020 9:22 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2562 by ringo, posted 08-16-2020 9:39 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2575 of 3207 (881033)
08-16-2020 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 2562 by ringo
08-16-2020 9:39 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
Time does not exist" is a nonsense statement.
WHY???
Is that because you cannot fathom non existence?
Example:
You go to the corner market and pick up a couple of items. The store owner gives you an extra bag that has 5 apples in it.
Apples=5
You don't like apples so as you are walking down the street towards home you see three kids in a yard and you give them an apple apiece. Moments later here come two other kids asking if you have any apples left?
Apples=2
You give each an apple bag is empty and as you enter your yard you put the empty bag in the trash can.
Apples=0 as far as your apples go as you gave them all away. Thus your apples don't exist any longer.
Time=0 time does not exist.
Not clear yet?
You are driving down a road at a high rate of speed you crash into a semi head on.
T=7 seconds until your death. When the 7 seconds are gone your time on earth = zero. That means for you time does not exist.
Enjoy,
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2562 by ringo, posted 08-16-2020 9:39 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2576 by Straggler, posted 08-16-2020 5:27 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 2577 by ringo, posted 08-16-2020 8:52 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2578 of 3207 (881045)
08-16-2020 11:51 PM
Reply to: Message 2561 by Tangle
08-16-2020 3:17 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi Tangle,
Tangle writes:
The only way either of us can understand this high level cosmology is by having the same level of mathematical understanding as they have - or something close to it. I don't have it and neither do you.
Either the universe has existed eternally.
OR
The universe began to exist.
If it began to exist something had to create it whether it was Hawking's instanton, 2 branes hitting each other, God, or something else.
Tangle writes:
Hawking published his work you know -
Yes and it was on his website until recently when the site was closed down.
I have much of his lecturers, but not all.
Tangle writes:
All I'm doing here is pointing out that you are a liar when you continue to say that Hawking believed in a creator.
Hawking invented a creator he called an instanton and made the statement that i"IF" the instanton popped into existence it would create a universe just like the one we live in.
Please notice he did say "IF". He believed it did and created this universe in which we live.
Since he did not believe the universe was eternal in existence as Edwin Hubble discovered in 1931 the universe was expanding. Due to the laws of thermodynamics the universe had to have a beginning to exist.
So if the universe was not created, how did it begin to exist.
Tangle writes:
Krauss is as rabid an atheist as I am, does he belive in a creator too?
Sure his nothing was relativistic quantum fields.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2561 by Tangle, posted 08-16-2020 3:17 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2582 by Tangle, posted 08-17-2020 2:29 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 2579 of 3207 (881047)
08-17-2020 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 2572 by ringo
08-16-2020 3:51 PM


Re: After We Die
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
That certainly is an empty claim, so why do you waste time with it?
If there is no God it would be an empty claim as you would just be dead.
If there is a God that every knee shall bow to and every tongue confess that He is God, it was no empty claim.
ringo writes:
You mock evidence. Shame on you. Remember the story of Thomas. Jesus offered him evidence. He didn't expect Thomas or the other disciples to believe without evidence.
But you want me to accept that the universe just 'is'. No evidence presented.
The universe exists. I can see part of it that is evidence.
The question is how did it begin to exist. Zero scientific evidence. So the only evidence we have is the Bible.
ringo writes:
Human wisdom is all we've got.
I am not sure about that claim.
ringo writes:
You have nothing but human wisdom to tell you anything about God. Human wisdom is the ultimate backup.
I know that one is wrong.
How many scientific facts would my Bible have to have recorded in it over 2000 years before it was known by science for it to be a reliable book?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2572 by ringo, posted 08-16-2020 3:51 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2583 by ringo, posted 08-17-2020 9:16 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2580 of 3207 (881048)
08-17-2020 12:30 AM
Reply to: Message 2577 by ringo
08-16-2020 8:52 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
T=0 is a point in time. It is not a quantity of time. You can not compare time to apples.
Why not?
You start with 5 apples and give all 5 apples away.
To start you have 5 apples after you give 5 apples away you have zero apples.
T=0 You start with no time and you end up with no time. You don't even gain 1
quadrillionth of a nanosecond.
T=0 is not a point in time. It is a point where time does not exists.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2577 by ringo, posted 08-16-2020 8:52 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2584 by ringo, posted 08-17-2020 9:21 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2581 of 3207 (881050)
08-17-2020 12:38 AM
Reply to: Message 2576 by Straggler
08-16-2020 5:27 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi Straggler,
Straggler writes:
Isn’t T=0 effectively the point at which time (and space) come into existence in the Big Bang?
Time and space does not exist at T=0. That is the reason for the zero
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2576 by Straggler, posted 08-16-2020 5:27 PM Straggler has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2585 of 3207 (881065)
08-17-2020 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 2582 by Tangle
08-17-2020 2:29 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi Tangle,
Tangle writes:
None of those things make any sense to non-cosmologists.
Hawking's instanton that he invented imaginary time for the instanton to pop into existence which would also require a vacuum.
There is zero evidence to support the instanton so very few scientist accepted the hypothesis.
Tangle writes:
A universe existing forever is not understandable
That was the Standard Theory until Hubble discovered the universe was expanding.
Einstein believed in an eternal static universe so much he created his fudge factor instead of accepting the fact the universe had to have a beginning to exist. The universe having a beginning to exist required a creator.
Tangle writes:
There is nothing outside the universe
I have been told that, But how do you know there is nothing outside the universe?
Tangle writes:
That's pagan superstition.
I don't believe in pagan superstition. Neither do I believe in an answer of "we don't know". We will just go on assumptions which I don't believe in either.
Tangle writes:
Which is not A Creator is it?
If it causes the universe t begin to exist it is.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2582 by Tangle, posted 08-17-2020 2:29 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2589 by Tangle, posted 08-17-2020 12:17 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2586 of 3207 (881066)
08-17-2020 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 2584 by ringo
08-17-2020 9:21 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
You start at a point on the time line and you move forward. You can not remove time like you can remove apples. You can not get back to "no time".
I never said anything about removing time.
I did say T=0 is not a point on the time line.
It is not a point anywhere. It is a statement that Time=Zero and you can not get existence of time out of Zero time. Just like you can't get an apple out of Zero apples.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2584 by ringo, posted 08-17-2020 9:21 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2588 by ringo, posted 08-17-2020 12:14 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2587 of 3207 (881067)
08-17-2020 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 2583 by ringo
08-17-2020 9:16 AM


Re: After We Die
Hi ringo,
You would still be dead.
ringo writes:
I couldn't care less what you accept.
Good glad we got that settled.
ringo writes:
The only evidence we have is scientific.
Then would you please present any scientific evidence you have.
ringo writes:
There are lots of "holy" books that are every bit as reliable as the Bible and they all disagree so they're not evidence.
Could you present just one.
ringo writes:
Since there are scientific errors on page one, it is not a reliable book.
Could you be very specific and write down each one.
Or at least give me one of those scientific error.
I can find translation errors on page one but no scientific error.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2583 by ringo, posted 08-17-2020 9:16 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2590 by ringo, posted 08-17-2020 12:36 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 2591 of 3207 (881071)
08-17-2020 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 2588 by ringo
08-17-2020 12:14 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi ringo
ringo writes:
And you were wrong.
How can you have a time line unless you have time?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2588 by ringo, posted 08-17-2020 12:14 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2593 by ringo, posted 08-17-2020 1:03 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2592 of 3207 (881073)
08-17-2020 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 2589 by Tangle
08-17-2020 12:17 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi Tangle,
Tangle writes:
So what caused the uncaused cause ICANT?
I have not proposed an uncaused cause.
Scientist is the ones that have done that.
Imaginary time.
instantion
God particle
pea sized universe
I propose an eternal existing universe just not in the form we see it today.
The Bible is a book that tells me how God took the existing energy and formed the universe and everything in it out of that energy.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2589 by Tangle, posted 08-17-2020 12:17 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2594 by Tangle, posted 08-17-2020 4:35 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2595 of 3207 (881101)
08-18-2020 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 2593 by ringo
08-17-2020 1:03 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
We don't "have" time like we "have" apples.
Could you give me your definition of time so we can get on the same page as I think I am talking about one thing and you are talking about a totally different thing, or entity.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2593 by ringo, posted 08-17-2020 1:03 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2596 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 12:20 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 2597 of 3207 (881118)
08-18-2020 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 2590 by ringo
08-17-2020 12:36 PM


Re: After We Die
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
The Book of the Dead, the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Iliad and Odyssey, the Tao Te Ching, the Edda, the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Tantras, the Qur'an, the Talmud, the Midrash, the Zohar, the Book of Mormon, Dianetics... and those are only the ones I've heard of.
There are only a couple of those books that talk about the one God. Most talk about many Gods and some were written in the last 200 years. Some are very old and are just like the scientist of those years that gave us a flat earth, except they are classified as religious.
ringo writes:
Chapter one, verse two has water before light, verse two has light before sun and moon; verse eleven has plants before sun and moon....
Water existed eternally before Genesis 1:2.
The universe and everything in it was created in the light period of Genesis 1:1.
The only things created in Genesis 1:2-31 was a special fish in verse 21 and mankind in the image of God in verse 27.
There are only 3 creation events recorded in the Bible.
Genesis 1:1 The heavens and the earth were created. According to the Hebrew verb bar which is a perfect verb the action of the subject of the verb (God) created the objects of verb (heavens and the earth) and they were a completed job. Meaning they were ready to be inhabited by mankind.
ברא is in the Hebrew text 45 times 3 of those I mentioned and all the rest are referring back to one of those events.
אשה is in the Hebrew text 2633 times and none of them are translated created.
That is like time/apples they are not the same they are two different things.
ringo writes:
You know as little about translation as you do about science, so your opinions on the matter aren't worth much.
My professor that taught Biblical Greek and Hebrew would disagree with you. I do have a Bible Language Diploma that would disagree also. I have been studying Greek and Hebrew since 1965 but more Hebrew than Greek, as I am very interested in the Creation of this universe in which we live.
And yes my opinion is only my opinion except where it agrees with the Biblical text.
I do not study to satisfy you or any other human I study to show myself approved of God a workman that needeth not be ashamed but rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2590 by ringo, posted 08-17-2020 12:36 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2606 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 8:15 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 2598 of 3207 (881130)
08-18-2020 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 2596 by ringo
08-18-2020 12:20 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
According to Wikipedia:
quote:
Time is the indefinite continued progress of existence and events that occur in an apparently irreversible succession from the past, through the present, into the future.
According to that definition time and existence are the same thing.
How do you measure either one?
ringo writes:
Note the word "irreversible". You can't give and take time like you can give and take apples.
If there had never been an apple tree there would have been no apples I could use for an example.
There had never been time, nor was there time at T=0 therefore time did not exist.
Now if you had clicked on "Time in physics" you would have got the following:
quote:
Time in physics is defined by its measurement: time is what a clock reads
Which brings up my question how do you measure something by itself.
If you were to check through my posts you would find my definition of time.
"Time is what man invented to measure the duration between events in eternity. By dividing up the duration that it takes the earth to make one complete revolution in relation to the sun, into hours, minutes, and seconds."
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2596 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 12:20 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2607 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 8:17 PM ICANT has replied

  
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