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Author Topic:   Did the Flood really happen?
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2131 of 2370 (880997)
08-16-2020 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 2130 by Juvenissun
08-16-2020 7:33 AM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
I am not begging you to understand.
Nobody begged you to come here and spout empty opinions. If you have a point to make, it's up to you to make it. I'm not going to drag it out of you.
So if YOU have any questions, feel free to ask. But don't expect to be treated like the guru on the mountain with all the answers.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2130 by Juvenissun, posted 08-16-2020 7:33 AM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2132 by Juvenissun, posted 08-16-2020 3:53 PM ringo has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1308 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2132 of 2370 (881026)
08-16-2020 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 2131 by ringo
08-16-2020 9:49 AM


Re: Time scales
If you said something wrong, I will correct it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2131 by ringo, posted 08-16-2020 9:49 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2133 by ringo, posted 08-16-2020 3:55 PM Juvenissun has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2133 of 2370 (881027)
08-16-2020 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 2132 by Juvenissun
08-16-2020 3:53 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
If you said something wrong, I will correct it.
Correct this: There is no evidence that there has ever been a worldwide flood while humans were on earth - i.e. the story of Noah's Ark is fiction.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2132 by Juvenissun, posted 08-16-2020 3:53 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2134 by Juvenissun, posted 08-17-2020 8:05 PM ringo has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1308 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2134 of 2370 (881081)
08-17-2020 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 2133 by ringo
08-16-2020 3:55 PM


Re: Time scales
There is no evidence that there has ever been a worldwide flood while humans were on earth - i.e. the story of Noah's Ark is fiction.
One major mistake: Noah is not a normal human. You can not use modern human to reason things happened in Noah's time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2133 by ringo, posted 08-16-2020 3:55 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2135 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 9:38 AM Juvenissun has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2135 of 2370 (881098)
08-18-2020 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 2134 by Juvenissun
08-17-2020 8:05 PM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
Noah is not a normal human.
The Bible only mentions one thing about Noah that distinguishes him from "normal" humans:
quote:
Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
Noah was chosen. That's all.
Juvenissun writes:
You can not use modern human to reason things happened in Noah's time.
Of course you can. There's no reason to think the laws of physics changed.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2134 by Juvenissun, posted 08-17-2020 8:05 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2136 by jar, posted 08-18-2020 9:47 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 2137 by Juvenissun, posted 08-18-2020 11:23 AM ringo has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2136 of 2370 (881099)
08-18-2020 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 2135 by ringo
08-18-2020 9:38 AM


Re: Time scales
Plus we can and have examined humans that lived long before Noah (if Noah ever existed) as well as humans that lived after Noah (and even humans that would have lived right during the Biblical Flood if either of the Biblical Floods had ever happened).
We don't have to speculate, we have direct remains of humans that we have examined that would have been alive about the time of Adam (if Adam had ever really existed).

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2135 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 9:38 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2138 by Juvenissun, posted 08-18-2020 11:25 AM jar has not replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1308 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2137 of 2370 (881103)
08-18-2020 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 2135 by ringo
08-18-2020 9:38 AM


Re: Time scales
Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
That is normal.
What's not normal is that Noah lived 950 years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2135 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 9:38 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2139 by Coragyps, posted 08-18-2020 11:46 AM Juvenissun has not replied
 Message 2140 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 12:13 PM Juvenissun has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1308 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2138 of 2370 (881104)
08-18-2020 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 2136 by jar
08-18-2020 9:47 AM


Re: Time scales
We don't have to speculate, we have direct remains of humans that we have examined that would have been alive about the time of Adam (if Adam had ever really existed).
You do have to. Those remains may not be human. They are dated a few millions of years old.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2136 by jar, posted 08-18-2020 9:47 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2141 by Coragyps, posted 08-18-2020 12:52 PM Juvenissun has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 2139 of 2370 (881110)
08-18-2020 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 2137 by Juvenissun
08-18-2020 11:23 AM


Re: Time scales
It’s perfectly normal for fictional characters to live that long, and longer. Sumerian kings lived 36,000 years and such, and their fictional legends are just as written down as Noah’s and Adam’s.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2137 by Juvenissun, posted 08-18-2020 11:23 AM Juvenissun has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2140 of 2370 (881112)
08-18-2020 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 2137 by Juvenissun
08-18-2020 11:23 AM


Re: Time scales
Juvenissun writes:
Genesis 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
That is normal.
Genesis certainly implies that it was not. Noah was the only one whose family was saved from the flood.
Juvenissun writes:
What's not normal is that Noah lived 950 years.
On the contrary, Adam lived to 930, Seth to 912, Enosh to 905, Kenan to 910, Mahalaleel to 895, Jared to 962, Lamech to 777 and Methuselah to 969. Those ages, if they were true, were perfectly normal.
Edited by ringo, : Added "ly".

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2137 by Juvenissun, posted 08-18-2020 11:23 AM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2142 by dwise1, posted 08-18-2020 1:29 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 2144 by Juvenissun, posted 08-18-2020 3:49 PM ringo has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 2141 of 2370 (881117)
08-18-2020 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 2138 by Juvenissun
08-18-2020 11:25 AM


Re: Time scales
Please point out any one example of human remains dated at millions of years old. Not hominid remains, now - human. I won’t hold my breath, Juve.
There are not just human remains that date back to the time of Noah. There are whole cultures, with cities, pyramids, other ruins and artifacts, that date right through that fictional time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2138 by Juvenissun, posted 08-18-2020 11:25 AM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2143 by Juvenissun, posted 08-18-2020 3:45 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 2142 of 2370 (881124)
08-18-2020 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 2140 by ringo
08-18-2020 12:13 PM


Re: Time scales
On the contrary, Adam lived to 930, Seth to 912, Enosh to 905, Kenan to 910, Mahalaleel to 895, Jared to 962, Lamech to 777 and Methuselah to 969. Those ages, if they were true, were perfectly normal.
Methuselah could have gotten much older if he hadn't drowned in the Flood (dates in AC, "After Creation"):
  • Methuselah (687 AC - 1656 AC)
  • Noah (1056 AC - who cares?)
  • Flood -- when Noah was 600 years old, therefore 1656 AC
So why did Methuselah, being so special, have to drown?
After going through a long tabulation of of the kings, etc, you finally get to a tie-point, an event that has a date known to actual history: Cyrus, the Persian, setting the people free (2 Chronicles 36:23) in 538 BCE. Since that was in 3647 AC, that would place 0 AC at 4185 BCE:
3647 AC = 538 BCE = -538 CE
0 AC = (-538 - 3647) CE
0 AC = -4185 CE = 4185 BCE
QEF
So with Creation having happened at 4185 BCE, that would place the Flood (1656 AC) at 2521 BCE ( -4185 + 1656 ). In comparison, Egyptian history started around around 3150 BCE, about six centuries before the Flood, yet they didn't notice it.
 
See my reposting of a YEC's article on biblical chronology. I found it interesting because as a child I had also played that rainy-day game of adding up all the ages, but hit a wall in Genesis. The key is to then go beyond Genesis and work to the first king and then through all the kings until you can find a tie-point with actual history. This guy did it (actually, I'm sure that he had just stolen from some other source without any attribution ... er, call it "research", though the complete lack of attribution does still raise the standard concerns for creationists' total lack of honesty.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2140 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 12:13 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1308 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2143 of 2370 (881140)
08-18-2020 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 2141 by Coragyps
08-18-2020 12:52 PM


Re: Time scales
Please point out any one example of human remains dated at millions of years old. Not hominid remains, now - human. I won’t hold my breath, Juve.
There are not just human remains that date back to the time of Noah. There are whole cultures, with cities, pyramids, other ruins and artifacts, that date right through that fictional time.
If you think Noah is fictional, then the Flood should also be fictional. The consequence is the whole thing is fictional. If so, why do you try to "reason" that the Flood is "impossible"? Is there a chance that a fictional thing is possible? If not, why do you try to argue the possibility of global flood by "reasons"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2141 by Coragyps, posted 08-18-2020 12:52 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2160 by Taq, posted 08-20-2020 6:15 PM Juvenissun has replied

  
Juvenissun
Member (Idle past 1308 days)
Posts: 332
Joined: 07-25-2020


Message 2144 of 2370 (881141)
08-18-2020 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 2140 by ringo
08-18-2020 12:13 PM


Re: Time scales
See, dwise1 said you are dishonest by saying these incredibly old people are "normal".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2140 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 12:13 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2145 by dwise1, posted 08-18-2020 4:17 PM Juvenissun has replied
 Message 2146 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 8:23 PM Juvenissun has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 2145 of 2370 (881148)
08-18-2020 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2144 by Juvenissun
08-18-2020 3:49 PM


Re: Time scales
See, dwise1 said you are dishonest by saying these incredibly old people are "normal".
I did no such thing, you lying POS! I was showing that you are the one being dishonest when you twist and pervert what the Bible clearly says. I was conducting an exercise of parody in the purest form: take what is being said seriously and on face value and carry it to its logical conclusions.
 
In the meantime, after your repeated insistence that you want to talk with a geologist, such that you were hypocritically refusing to discuss something since you would only talk with a geologist, now that a geologist has presented himself you refuse to talk to him (Minnemooseus in Message 2129). Faced with a geologist, you run away.
The craven dishonesty and hypocrisy you display is over the top even for a creationist. What do you think you are accomplishing with your displays of abject moral bankruptcy? That yours is a false religion that is based on lies and deception? That point is already proven many times over. Take a rest. Your mission against God has been accomplished.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2144 by Juvenissun, posted 08-18-2020 3:49 PM Juvenissun has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2147 by Juvenissun, posted 08-19-2020 7:15 AM dwise1 has not replied

  
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