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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2599 of 3207 (881131)
08-18-2020 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2594 by Tangle
08-17-2020 4:35 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi Tangle,
Tangle writes:
Where did that god come from ICANT? Where did the ,existing energy come from?
Both are eternal.
You can not create nor destroy energy you can only change its form.
God Bless.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2594 by Tangle, posted 08-17-2020 4:35 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2600 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2020 3:00 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2601 of 3207 (881153)
08-18-2020 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2600 by Tangle
08-18-2020 3:00 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi Tantle,
Tangle writes:
You just doubled your problem.
Why do I have a problem. I have a God that has an endless supply of energy.
He does not live in this universe. This universe exists in His universe. Could there be other universes in His universe? I don't see why not but He did not think I needed to know that so He did not tell me if there was or not. But He did tell me a lot about the universe in which I live.
Tangle the scientist is the one that has the problem. He can't believe in a God that can supply all the energy that it took to create this universe. He can't figure out how to get around the natural laws that exist in the universe in order for this universe to pop into existence out of an absence of existence. It is not for the lack of trying or spending billions of dollars trying to prove it did. Science still has the problem that showed up when Hubble discovered the universe was expanding. Which required it to have a beginning to exist because of the laws of thermodynamics that an expanding universe that was eternal in existence would have reached thermal equilibrium a long time ago.
So mankind is like a man that is sitting in a vehicle that the drive axel is elevated such that the tires can't touch the ground/road. It makes no difference how long he drives that vehicle he does not get anywhere. He is still at the place spinning his wheels that he was after Hubble made his discovery.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2600 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2020 3:00 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2602 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2020 5:49 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2603 of 3207 (881155)
08-18-2020 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 2565 by Phat
08-16-2020 10:53 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi Phat,
Phat writes:
I firmly believe that there is a reality after death and hope that I dont end up finding myself a goat.
Why would you make such a statement?
You been drinking too much of jar's and ringo's kool aid.
You can answer that question by email if you want too.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2565 by Phat, posted 08-16-2020 10:53 AM Phat has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2604 of 3207 (881156)
08-18-2020 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 2602 by Tangle
08-18-2020 5:49 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi Tangle,
Tangle writes:
Right, so what created his universe?
What part of eternal do you not understand?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2602 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2020 5:49 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2605 by Tangle, posted 08-18-2020 6:03 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2608 of 3207 (881168)
08-18-2020 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 2606 by ringo
08-18-2020 8:15 PM


Re: After We Die
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
I don't care what contortions you go through to try to explain away the errors. You asked for errors and I gave you errors.
And I don't care how you slice it or dice it there was nothing created in
Genesis 1:2-31 except one specific kind of water creature that was prepared to transport Jonah around for 3 day's and night's, and mankind in Genesis 1:27.
Show me where anything else was created.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2606 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 8:15 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2609 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 10:20 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2610 of 3207 (881172)
08-18-2020 10:26 PM
Reply to: Message 2607 by ringo
08-18-2020 8:17 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
It says that time is the PROGRESS of existence.
Existence has no progress and can not be measured. The only measurement of existence is "NOW".
Duration between events can be measured with the concept of time.
Example:
You go out and place two stakes 100 yards apart.
You want to know how long it will take you to run from 1 stake to the other.
How do you measure the duration between takeoff at the first stake and arrival at the second stake?
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2607 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 8:17 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2611 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 10:30 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2612 of 3207 (881175)
08-18-2020 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 2609 by ringo
08-18-2020 10:20 PM


Re: After We Die
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
I showed you where the science errors are.
There was light before water in Genesis 1:1.
There was sun and moon in Genesis 1:1.
In the generations of the day God created the heavens and the earth in Genesis 1:1. The plants was after the sun and moon.
You believe everything was created in chapter 1:2-31. Everything except a great fish Gen. 1:21, and mankind in the image and likeness of God Gen. 1:27 was created in Genesis 1:1 and the generations of that day lays out how.
I can't help it if you are like a lot of people I know. Their attitude is they know what they believe and don't want to be bothered with the facts.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2609 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 10:20 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2614 by ringo, posted 08-19-2020 12:13 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2613 of 3207 (881176)
08-19-2020 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 2611 by ringo
08-18-2020 10:30 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
The definition disagrees with you.
1. Webster the measured or measurable period during which an action, process, or condition exists or continues : DURATION Time Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
2. Dictionary.com "the system of those sequential relations that any event has to any other, as past, present, or future; indefinite and continuous duration regarded as that in which events succeed one another." https://www.dictionary.com/browse/time
3. The Free Dictionary " A nonspatial continuum in which events occur in apparently irreversible succession from the past through the present to the future."Time - definition of time by The Free Dictionary
4. Definition of Time — Exactly What Is Time? There are many definitions of time at this location.
5. University of Helsinki Before the Big Bang, there was no space or time.
"In the theory of relativity, the concept of time begins with the Big Bang the same way as parallels of latitude begin at the North Pole. You cannot go further north than the North Pole," says Kari Enqvist, Professor of Cosmology. https://www.sciencedaily.com/...ses/2005/04/050415115227.htm
As you see you can find any and all kinds of definitions of time.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2611 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 10:30 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2615 by ringo, posted 08-19-2020 12:21 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2616 of 3207 (881204)
08-19-2020 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 2615 by ringo
08-19-2020 12:21 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi ringo,
That probably due to the fact there was no man to come up with a concept of time.
ringo writes:
the concept of time begins with the Big Bang
That actualy says "the concept of time begins with the Big Bang."
The concept of time did not actually exist until after Genesis 1:1 was written giving us God's definition of a day, and then making the sun visible from earth so we had something to use to come up with the concept of time. You know the earth's rotation in relation to the sun.
God Bless,]

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2615 by ringo, posted 08-19-2020 12:21 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2617 by vimesey, posted 08-19-2020 3:54 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 2618 by ringo, posted 08-19-2020 8:50 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2619 of 3207 (881253)
08-20-2020 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 2614 by ringo
08-19-2020 12:13 PM


Re: After We Die
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
It doesn't say that.
In Genesis 1:2 we have the first evening followed by a dark period that had closed the first light period with the following light period in Genesis 1:6 beginning of the second day.
I have never seen an evening that did not close a light period.
ringo writes:
It doesn't say that.
Are you saying the sun and moon are not part of the universe?
If they are part of the universe they were created when the heavens and the earth was created in Genesis 1:1.
ringo writes:
It doesn't say anything about generations. How can you have generations in one day?
quote:
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
The Hebrew towledah here is referring to the account/history/generations of the specific day in which he heavens and the earth began to exist. That history is recorded in the following verses.
There is no limit to the duration of the light period in which the heavens and the earth was created. It was just the light period that had existed from the beginning until the evening at Genesis 1:2.
ringo writes:
It doesn't say that.
The sun and moon are a part of the universe so they existed in the day the heavens and the earth was created. The same day God planted a garden.
ringo writes:
I don't believe any such thing but that's what the Bible says.
If you don't believe what it says why are you telling me what it says.
Lets see what it says.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
The generations/history of the light period (day) in which God created the heavens and the earth begins in Genesis 2:4
Genesis 1:5 God declares day one.
At the beginning of the second day God did some work that separated the water in the heaven and the water that covered the earth. This division between the water on earth and the water above He called heaven. The following light period began the third day. verse 6-8 nothing was created.
In verse 9 God told the water to gather to one place and allow dry land to appear.
It did and God called the dry land earth and the water He called sea, not plural as translated.
quote:
verse 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.
Nothing created, or made. Earth brought forth grass, seed, fruit trees, yielding fruit after his kind. These fruit tree and grass was to come from the seed that was on the earth. Nothing was created, or made.
The grass and trees were produced after its kind from seed.
The third day ended with the light period of the fourth day.
The Fourth day.
quote:
1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
Nothing created or made. But these lights are to help us have days, seasons, and years. They were to give light upon the earth.
So God did some work on two great lights. Notice they were not created, brought into existence.
אשה, translation made def do work with/on things
ברא, translation created def bring into existence
ringo writes:
It doesn't say that.
Genesis 1:21 ברא created brought into existence.
Genesis 1:27 ברא created brought into existence
ringo writes:
There are no generations in a single day.
That is what the text says in Genesis 2:4.
ringo writes:
As I said, I don't believe a word of it - but it says what it says.
Your unbelief is not my problem, it is yours.
It says what it means, and means what it says.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2614 by ringo, posted 08-19-2020 12:13 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2624 by ringo, posted 08-21-2020 12:53 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2620 of 3207 (881255)
08-20-2020 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 2617 by vimesey
08-19-2020 3:54 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi Vimesey,
vimesey writes:
That is a description of a really simplistic and unsophisticated perception of time by some human beings.
Actually I gave quite a few definitions of time.
Would you like to add yours?
vimesey writes:
To understand time as it is (ie one of the dimensions of space time,
What is time that you can measure?
Length, width, and height are dimensions. Everyone of those can be measured.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2617 by vimesey, posted 08-19-2020 3:54 PM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2622 by vimesey, posted 08-21-2020 6:51 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2621 of 3207 (881256)
08-20-2020 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 2618 by ringo
08-19-2020 8:50 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
That isn't true. People had a concept of time long before Genesis was written.
What was that concept based upon 3800 years ago?
God Bless,

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2618 by ringo, posted 08-19-2020 8:50 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2625 by ringo, posted 08-21-2020 12:56 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2623 of 3207 (881275)
08-21-2020 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 2622 by vimesey
08-21-2020 6:51 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi vimesey,
vimesey writes:
OK, if I’m going to be able to reply in a way which helps here, I need to know if you are aware that space and time are not separate, but are part of a single concept, being spacetime.
I know that according to Hawking and others that is the concept put forth for the BBT.
But just because someone assumed that to be so does not make it a fact.
Do you have any evidence other than an assumption? If so I would be interested in reading it.
vimesey writes:
For example, are you aware that if you left Earth in a spaceship which (purely in spatial terms) could travel at speeds of a decent fraction of the speed of light, you could return to Earth younger than your kids ?
I know that assumptions have been made that say that is theoretically possible.
But no I am not aware that I could actually do that. At 81 years old I would like to take a trip that would reduce my age by about 50 years.
Has that experiment been tried yet?
Eternity is. If there are events in eternity they do not happen simultaneously the duration between those events is what is measured by time.
Therefore time is a concept created by mankind starting with the Egyptians to measure the duration between those events. That measurement is based on the revolution of the earth relative to the sun. The Jewish day was from the end of a light period followed by a period of darkness and the next light period the beginning of the next day. The ancient Egyptians were one of the first cultures to widely divide days into generally agreed-upon equal parts.
It would make no difference whether there is 12 hours, 24 hours, 48 hours, or even 96 hours in a day. But none of those numbers would change the length of duration between events in eternity, or the duration of the rotation of the earth relative to the sun. The numbers produced by our concept of time are for our benefit only.
So how do you measure time?
If it is the 4th dimension of the universe how do you measure it?

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2622 by vimesey, posted 08-21-2020 6:51 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2626 by vimesey, posted 08-21-2020 1:02 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2627 of 3207 (881292)
08-21-2020 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 2626 by vimesey
08-21-2020 1:02 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi vimesey,
vimesey writes:
There’s tons of evidence,
They prove two things to me. The first is that the closer to the center of the earth a clock is the slower it will operate due to the effect of gravity on the equiptment.
Since they were using atomic clocks they proved that the fluctuations of the atom is slower the closer it is to the center of the earth.
The second thing they proved was that the velocity time dilation predictions of special relativity was wrong, since the Sagnac term was not accounted for.
The satellites that has the clocks in that control our GPS have to be offset to account for altitude and sagana effect. before launch.
vimesey writes:
Also, you misunderstand when I said you could come back from a space flight and be younger than your kids
How did I misunderstand you when you actually said:
vimesey writes:
you could return to Earth younger than your kids ?
Now if I could take a trip and come back younger than my son that would be proof that duration in eternity is not the same everywhere in eternity.
Let me try something that maybe you can explain to me. If I had taken this hypothetical trip when I was 20 years old and my son 2 years old. I came back when I am 50 years old. Since my clock average running at 1/2 the speed of my sons clock I have been gone only 30 years according to my clock but my sons clock has recorded 60 years that would make me 60 years old and him 62 years old.
You tell me in your original post to me that is exactly what would happen and then in the post I am answering you say I misunderstood you and I would not be younger than my son.
The only way I could not be 2 years younger than my son is if my clock was off and running half as fast as my sons clock due to the proximity of his clock to the center of the earth.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2626 by vimesey, posted 08-21-2020 1:02 PM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2628 by vimesey, posted 08-21-2020 4:45 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2629 of 3207 (881294)
08-21-2020 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 2624 by ringo
08-21-2020 12:53 PM


Re: After We Die
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
Well, you weren't there in Genesis 1.
Nope.
But the writer of Genesis was told what to write in a book.
ringo writes:
If there was a "first day", then it had to start with either an evening or a morning. In case you haven't heard, the Jewish day always starts at sundown, so the first day COULD NOT close a light period.
First off there is no first day referred to in Genesis 1:5, only day one.
Genesis 1:1 tells us God created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 2:4 tells us the heavens and earth was created in one day. Therefore God's definition of a day is light would mean that they were created in a light period.
How many hours can you get between evening and morning, and what did God call that period.
ringo writes:
I said they were not there on Day One.
And you know that because.
Genesis 1:1 uses the Hebrew bra to tell us what the results of subject of the verbs actions. It tells us the heavens and the earth existed. So you are saying the sun and moon are not a part of the universe.
The verb in Genesis 1:1 is ברא which is qal perfect telling us the action of the subject of the verb was a completed action. Had the sun and moon been missing the results of the action would not have been completed.
ringo writes:
Nope. The Bible says explicitly that they were not created until Day Four.
So you are telling me that the Bible says the lights were ברא
explicitly definition: in a clear and detailed manner, leaving no room for confusion or doubt.
quote:
Genesis
1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
Would you be explicit pointing out the explicit verse and word 14-17 that states these lights were ברא.
ringo writes:
That's a silly question. I don't have to believe The Lord of the Rings is true to know what it says.
Now who was that that could not understand English.
ringo writes:
It says God MADE two great lights.
But it does not say He ברא (created, caused to exist) them. It did say אשה He did do some work on them.
ringo writes:
And you don't know either what it says or what it means.
Since you are so smart why don't you explain it to me? OR cut bait.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2624 by ringo, posted 08-21-2020 12:53 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2632 by ringo, posted 08-22-2020 12:26 PM ICANT has replied

  
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