Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,818 Year: 3,075/9,624 Month: 920/1,588 Week: 103/223 Day: 1/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Miracle Of The Sun & Other Musings
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 76 of 327 (881389)
08-23-2020 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by jar
08-23-2020 9:48 AM


Re: Scoffers Will Scoff
jar writes:
But if you claimed you saw Schrodinger's Cat I would never scoff.
I don't recall ever seeing a cat. Now that the thought is in my head, I probably will.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by jar, posted 08-23-2020 9:48 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by dwise1, posted 08-23-2020 5:27 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


(1)
Message 77 of 327 (881402)
08-23-2020 11:46 AM


Jesus is Lord.

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Phat, posted 08-23-2020 4:05 PM Trump won has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 78 of 327 (881414)
08-23-2020 4:05 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Trump won
08-23-2020 11:46 AM


In Conclusion
Amen!

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killosophy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Trump won, posted 08-23-2020 11:46 AM Trump won has not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 79 of 327 (881416)
08-23-2020 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by ringo
08-23-2020 9:54 AM


Re: Scoffers Will Scoff
The cat might be in Schrdinger's Caf on the campus of the Vienna University of Technology (Technische Universitt Wien, TU Wien) at the corner of Wiedner Hauptstrae and Schaurhofergasse on the way from Karlsplatz to Operngasse (where we stayed). The caf was always closed when we walked past so we never went in (though we did window shop their selection of Big Bang Theory, DC, and Marvel themed merchandise including science project kits). We tried to look in to spot that cat's box, but it was always too dark to see it. So the box may or may not be in the caf, but if we went in to find it then it will have been removed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by ringo, posted 08-23-2020 9:54 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 80 of 327 (881509)
08-24-2020 11:15 PM


St Bernadette
St Bernadette, the woman who saw the Virgin Mary at Lourdes, died at age 35.
this photo was taken 46 years after her death.
wow.

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Tangle, posted 08-25-2020 3:16 AM Trump won has replied
 Message 82 by jar, posted 08-25-2020 7:30 AM Trump won has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 81 of 327 (881515)
08-25-2020 3:16 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Trump won
08-24-2020 11:15 PM


Re: St Bernadette
prc writes:
wow
Wow indeed
quote:
The Catholic Church claims there are many incorruptible bodies and that they are divine signs of the holiness of the persons whose bodies they used to be. Perhaps, but they are more likely signs of careful or lucky burial, combined with ignorance regarding the factors that affect rate of decay.
Some alleged cases of incorruptibility border on the piously fraudulent. For example, a television program showed a corpse in a case of a very lifelike woman the narrator said was the preserved body of St. Teresa of Avila who died in 1582. The corpse was actually that of St. Bernadette Soubirous, who died in 1879.
A photo of her corpse can be seen on the cover of a book called The Incorruptibles, which claims the body has been "preserved intact since 1879 without embalming or other artificial means." Actually, the face and hands that look so real in the photo are made out of wax. The wax was added because the face was "emaciated" when the body was first exhumed (Nickell 1993: 92). Perhaps St. Bernadette's corpse should be moved to Madame Tussauds.
incorruptible body - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com
Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Trump won, posted 08-24-2020 11:15 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Trump won, posted 08-26-2020 12:47 AM Tangle has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 82 of 327 (881522)
08-25-2020 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Trump won
08-24-2020 11:15 PM


Re: St Bernadette
And even if that were true it would still not be evidence of any miracle.
Try thinking. Who knows, you might even like it.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Trump won, posted 08-24-2020 11:15 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Trump won, posted 08-25-2020 11:50 PM jar has replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


(1)
Message 83 of 327 (881594)
08-25-2020 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by jar
08-25-2020 7:30 AM


Re: St Bernadette
what if i thought, and i decided that Jesus is God? or is that bad think.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by jar, posted 08-25-2020 7:30 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 08-26-2020 7:10 AM Trump won has not replied
 Message 90 by Phat, posted 08-26-2020 12:05 PM Trump won has not replied
 Message 91 by ringo, posted 08-26-2020 12:13 PM Trump won has not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 84 of 327 (881596)
08-26-2020 12:47 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Tangle
08-25-2020 3:16 AM


Re: St Bernadette
quote:
Three years later in 1928, Doctor Comte published a report on the exhumation of Soubirous in the second issue of the Bulletin de I'Association medicale de Notre-Dame de Lourdes.
"I would have liked to open the left side of the thorax to take the ribs as relics and then remove the heart which I am certain must have survived. However, as the trunk was slightly supported on the left arm, it would have been rather difficult to try and get at the heart without doing too much noticeable damage. As the Mother Superior had expressed a desire for the Saint's heart to be kept together with the whole body, and as Monsignor the Bishop did not insist, I gave up the idea of opening the left-hand side of the thorax and contented myself with removing the two right ribs which were more accessible. ... What struck me during this examination, of course, was the state of perfect preservation of the skeleton, the fibrous tissues of the muscles (still supple and firm), of the ligaments, and of the skin, and above all the totally unexpected state of the liver after 46 years. One would have thought that this organ, which is basically soft and inclined to crumble, would have decomposed very rapidly or would have hardened to a chalky consistency. Yet, when it was cut it was soft and almost normal in consistency. I pointed this out to those present, remarking that this did not seem to be a natural phenomenon."[19]
sigh...
Bernadette Soubirous - Wikipedia

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Tangle, posted 08-25-2020 3:16 AM Tangle has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 85 of 327 (881606)
08-26-2020 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by Trump won
08-25-2020 11:50 PM


Re: St Bernadette
prc writes:
what if i thought, and i decided that Jesus is God? or is that bad think.
It's a fine thought and if it comforts you then it's a good thought.
But understand, it is still nothing but what you think and unrelated to truth, actuality or reality.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Trump won, posted 08-25-2020 11:50 PM Trump won has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 08-26-2020 11:18 AM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 86 of 327 (881611)
08-26-2020 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 85 by jar
08-26-2020 7:10 AM


Re: St Bernadette
But understand, it is still nothing but what you think and unrelated to truth, actuality or reality.
So do you mean to suggest that truth is not a person?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killosophy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 08-26-2020 7:10 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by jar, posted 08-26-2020 11:38 AM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 87 of 327 (881612)
08-26-2020 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Phat
08-26-2020 11:18 AM


Re: St Bernadette
Phat writes:
So do you mean to suggest that truth is not a person?
Truth is a human construct that is only relevant within a particular mutually agreed social compact and that varies over time, specific instances and related mythos.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Phat, posted 08-26-2020 11:18 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Phat, posted 08-26-2020 11:56 AM jar has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 88 of 327 (881615)
08-26-2020 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 87 by jar
08-26-2020 11:38 AM


Re: St Bernadette
Oh ok, I forget. You believe the same thing about the Bible...created, edited, imagined, redacted by humans etc etc.
I disagree with that of course.
You always ask me to explain what I mean. Then, you claim that so far nobody has been able to show you.
And then you have low regard for the apologists.
Granted that among them are many a conman, huckster, and delusional fanatic.
My case is that there is a group of people on this planet that have actually had a communion with what they strongly believe (and claim to know) to be the One God Who is reachable through Jesus Christ.
In other words, Jesus is God.
I know where this will go. You will say that its fine that I believe that, but that so far there is no evidence that Jesus even existed how modern Bibles and Apologists portray Him to be.
I will assert that for those of us who know Him, the evidence is within us.
Then the peanut gallery will crow loudly that exclusivity is a sign of mass delusion and fantasy and that if God existed they would first have to separate all of the candidates from human cultural mythos, proving yet again that they (you) don't understand God the way that we do. God is not a creation of the human mind. While it may be true that humans often attempt to define and describe God the way that they want Him to be, God is not bound to be that description. God exists eternally. He created all that is seen and unseen. Jesus is/was Gods human character, messenger, embodiment and representation.
And the Holy Spirit is a gift...not a scientific law or property.
God could have dumped this planet long ago and we would not be having these types of conversations.(or any at all, actually)

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killosophy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by jar, posted 08-26-2020 11:38 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by jar, posted 08-26-2020 12:05 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 92 by ringo, posted 08-26-2020 12:17 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 89 of 327 (881617)
08-26-2020 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by Phat
08-26-2020 11:56 AM


Re: St Bernadette
Phat writes:
My case is that there is a group of people on this planet that have actually had a communion with what they strongly believe (and claim to know) to be the One God Who is reachable through Jesus Christ.
In other words, Jesus is God.
I know where this will go. You will say that its fine that I believe that, but that so far there is no evidence that Jesus even existed how modern Bibles and Apologists portray Him to be.
I will assert that for those of us who know Him, the evidence is within us.
I know that you use that word ...
You really are totally clueless what the word "evidence" means it seems.
And yes, it is very true that like the child at the parade I do not see the Emperor's new clothes.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Phat, posted 08-26-2020 11:56 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 90 of 327 (881618)
08-26-2020 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Trump won
08-25-2020 11:50 PM


Re: St Bernadette
PRC writes:
what if i thought, and i decided that Jesus is God? or is that bad think.
The only thought that is a bad think is a thought (and perhaps subsequent action) that harms other people.
Belief is a choice. God did not pick and choose who would believe any more than (as jar argues) He foreknew who would be damned.
We become the decisions that we make.
In my opinion, jar has a good argument in that Christianity is about what we *do* rather than what we say, think, or believe.
One reason that so many people despise Christianity is because it claims to be exclusive.
All-inclusiveness is a subtle plot and trick of the adversary, however.
The only reason that I get on ringos case about socialism is not that it isn't a good idea to take care of everyone.
Socialism without God will only lead to global chaos.
One side says Jesus is the only way.
The other side says that humans are the only way and that all gods should bee thrown away for all practical purposes.
Does that make any sense?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killosophy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Trump won, posted 08-25-2020 11:50 PM Trump won has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024