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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2630 of 3207 (881295)
08-21-2020 6:08 PM
Reply to: Message 2628 by vimesey
08-21-2020 4:45 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi vimesey
vimesey writes:
Did you not read the article ?
If I hadn't read the article how would I know to bring up the sagana problem?
How would I have known the clocks in the GPS satellites had to be compensated for the altitude and sagana effect?
vimesey writes:
As for your misunderstanding of you coming back to earth younger than your kids, I quote your earlier post:
But that statement was made after you said in Message 2622:
quote:
For example, are you aware that if you left Earth in a spaceship which (purely in spatial terms) could travel at speeds of a decent fraction of the speed of light, you could return to Earth younger than your kids ?
vimesey writes:
Therein lay your misunderstanding.
I don't have any misunderstanding. I know that what you are trying to say is at near the speed of light eternity would not pass as fast as it does on earth.
You see I know eternity is not made out of rubber therefore it can not be stretched nor shrunk, nor can it be bent to suit mankind.
Let me give an example.
I had a friend in high school that could run a hundred yards in 9.6 seconds.
Now if I were to change the seconds in a minute to 30 instead of 60 would my friend be able to run the 100 yards in half of the measured time that it took when there was 60 seconds in a minute. He would run the 100 yards in 4.8 seconds according to my new watch.
The duration between him starting and finishing would be equal so I have not shrunk duration. It makes no difference how fast you go duration stays the same.
Just because you can make numbers say something does not change the fact eternity never changes.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2628 by vimesey, posted 08-21-2020 4:45 PM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2631 by vimesey, posted 08-22-2020 2:04 AM ICANT has replied
 Message 2635 by NosyNed, posted 08-22-2020 8:06 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2638 of 3207 (881432)
08-23-2020 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2631 by vimesey
08-22-2020 2:04 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
Hi vimesey,
vimesey writes:
Your instinctive approach seems to be to resist any science which is counter to your own personal world view,
So you are telling me space and time are the same thing.
I can not comprehend how that can be. So please explain.
What is the time part of space that can be measured. Now if you said that there was spaceexistence I could understand that space exists. There are events in existence and there is duration between those events and I know how to measure that duration but I don't know how or what to use to measure time.
I think I understand what space is. It is a volume in something that I can stick my hand in. But when I stick my hand in that space it does not exist any longer as my hand occupies that space. So space is an area where objects large or very small can exist. Our universe is a big place with a very large volume that some of it is occupied by stars, planets, suns, moons, asteroids, energy and all other kind of matter and mass. If I understand correctly there is no unoccupied space in the universe. There are parts that we do not know what occupies that part of space and we call it dark matter, and dark energy because it is invisible and has never been found.
Scientist will probably discover that energy and mass is the same stuff the universe is made of, then maybe not. It only holds the universe together.
vimesey writes:
To know your God, do you truly, truly need to cling to what you see as the truth of a few ancient stories, and ignore the deeper and so much more amazing majesty of the genuine universe ?
The universe is a very large place and has many wonderful sights in it. It was marvelously created by something like Hawking's instanton from an absente of existence or an all powerful God. If the instanton did it I would say the instanton was God because it was required to produce all the energy to produce the matter in the universe as well as enough energy to hold it together.
My problem with the scientific view is they start with an assumption and will never be able to replace that assumption with the facts. It has to be assumed that that little pea/pin head sized universe that expanded into the universe we have had no place to exist as there is nothing outside of the self contained universe. I have been told that there is nothing outside the universe many times by cavediver and Son Goku. I could probably find a quote or two from them in one of my old threads.
It takes more faith to believe that our universe was a self contained something the size of a pea, or a pin head as some have said popped into existence from non existence and created our universe than it does to believe God did it.
Explain the difference to me.
I simply believe my God created the universe. Why do I believe that.
He wrote me a love letter and in that letter he placed information that only He knew. He revealed the life of the flesh is in the blood. He revealed the earth had a circle. He revealed the earth was hung in the heavens on nothing. He revealed the universe was expanding. He revealed the land mass that was in one place was divided. He gave us the definition of a day as a light period followed by a dark period so we could figure out how to measure duration between events in existence. He revealed that one day the earth will melt with fervent heat. All of these are considered scientific facts as they have been discovered. There is no way those Bronze Age tribesmen could have known those scientific facts without someone telling them.
There are many other things that were foretold that has come true but I think the things that have turned out to be scientific facts is the best information to make my decision on. The one about the earth melting hasn't come to pass yet and the green energy movement think they can stop what is inevitable.
Long live the Queen I have not seen her in person since February 1994 in Grand Cayman CI BWI I was working on the Governor's residence.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2631 by vimesey, posted 08-22-2020 2:04 AM vimesey has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2639 of 3207 (881435)
08-24-2020 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 2632 by ringo
08-22-2020 12:26 PM


Re: After We Die
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
The writers were not there either - and there's no reason to think their source was accurate.
Moses spent 80 days and nights on Mt Sinai with God. At the end of which time God told Moses the write those things down in a book, and read it to the people every year. It is called the Pentateuch. I don't think they spent 80 days and nights without God telling him what He wanted wrote down in a book.
ringo writes:
Therefore there is a discrepancy. That's all we can say about it.
What discrepancy?
Verse 4 of chapter 2 only declares that it is the history of the universe in the day God created the heavens and the earth.
Verse 1 just tells us God created the heavens and the earth.
ringo writes:
Non sequitur. In Genesis One, the word "Day" is used for both the light part of the day and the whole day: "The evening and the morning were the nth day."
If you made an appointment to meet somebody at 12:00 tomorrow, when would you show up at noon or midnight?
ringo writes:
Twenty-four.
You are making fun of my question I assume.
Evening is at 6 PM Morning is 6 AM even in the Jewish day and you can pack no more than 12 hours into that.
ringo writes:
Because it says explicitly that they were created on Day Four.
quote:
Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.
1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.
1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,
1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.
1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
Show me the explicit word that mentions anything about the sun, moon, and stars being created. The Hebrew word ברא translation created does not exist in those verses.
So why are you insistent that created does exist in those verses. Talk about me not being able to read English.
ringo writes:
I have been explaining it to you. For example: Day One is by definition the first day.
As I said the first day of what?
One and First are two differ words.
You can only ever have "day one" of creation.
But there are many firsts. You have the first day of the week every 7 days.
You can't have the first day of creation every 7 days there was only "one".
God Bless,
Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2632 by ringo, posted 08-22-2020 12:26 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2641 by ringo, posted 08-24-2020 10:01 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2640 of 3207 (881437)
08-24-2020 1:08 AM
Reply to: Message 2635 by NosyNed
08-22-2020 8:06 PM


Re: Sagana effect?
Hi Ned,
Ned writes:
Could you point me to a description.
My mistake I misspelled sagnac you can find an explanation here:what is the sagnac effect - Search
Ned writes:
A number of people when exposed to the crazy results of relativistic calculations get the idea that somehow the motion or gravitational fields are messing the clocks up. You've hinted at that in your posts.
An atomic clock sitting at sea level and one sitting in Denver Colorado will not keep the same time unless the one in Denver is adjusted for the elevation of 5k+ feet.
Ned writes:
What is actually happening is that the passage of time being measured is itself changing.
But what is this time you are measuring? Are they calculations or something physical you can measure. You can't measure duration. You can only measure the duration between events. So how do you measure time?
Yep I know that is what is preached. But eternity is what we exist in. There are events that happen in eternity. We measure that duration by our concept of time. Like timing the duration it takes a runner to run 100 yards, or 1 mile. We use time which is divided up into hundredths of a second, a second, a minute, an hour, days, weeks, months, years, etc.
Ned writes:
If you think otherwise and you actually think you can over turn special and general relativity then you are also wrong. Very, very wrong. Period.
People with a lot more smarts than I have has already done that. Or at least they have very different views.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2635 by NosyNed, posted 08-22-2020 8:06 PM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2642 by NosyNed, posted 08-24-2020 11:11 AM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 2643 of 3207 (881457)
08-24-2020 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 2641 by ringo
08-24-2020 10:01 AM


Re: [qs=Re: After We Die
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
It doesn't matter what you think - and there's no reason to think that that part of the story is accurate either.
Can you tell me where Moses would have obtained the information:
The life of the flesh is in the blood. Leviticus 17:11
Earth is round not flat. God sitteth upon the circle of the earth. Isaiah 40:22
Universe expanding. He stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: Isaiah 40.22
Single land mass at one time. Genesis 1:9
Land mass divided. Genesis 10:25
He gave us the definition of a day. Genesis 1:5
He set the sun and moon to help us have something to base the concept of time on. Genesis 1:14-18
Where did Moses get this information from to be able to write it down 2800 years ago?
ringo writes:
The one we're talking about, the discrepancy between the usage of the word "day" in Genesis1 and Genesis 2.
The only discrepancy that exists is one you created.
Genesis 1:5 God called the light day. The Hebrew יום is the word translated day.
Genesis 2:4 says it is the beginning of the history of the day God created the heavens and the earth. The Hebrew יום is the word translated day.
Had Moses wanted to say in the days of creation he would have used the Hebrew word ביםיו which he used in Genesis 10:25.
ringo writes:
Nonsense. Evening and morning are not fixed times on the clock. The phrase refers to a 24-hour day.
The Jews have used evening and morning two ways. sundown to sunup and 6 pm to 6 am. And if you use it from sundown to sunup where I live at sometime that is less than 9 1/2 hours.
The only way you can get 24 hours is to add the previous light period to that dark period.
ringo writes:
The word "made" exists in verse 16.
In Message 2632 you said:
quote:
Because it says explicitly that they were created on Day Four.
The text does not explicitly say created. Explicitly means in a clear and detailed manner, leaving no room for confusion or doubt.
Made is not creation, they are not the same. I gave you the definitions of each and you can't read them or understand them I don't know which.
ringo writes:
The first day of creation.
The Hebrew language is a little more specific and that is the reason used the phrase Day One in his writing as he was referring to the light period in which God created the heavens and the earth which only took place one time.
Surely Moses knew the difference in Cardinal and Ordinal numbers as he used the Hebrew Cardinal number for one in Genesis 1:5 and the Hebrew Ordinal for second in Genesis 1:8.
ringo writes:
Which refer to the same thing.
Maybe one and first are the same thing to you but in Biblical Hebrew they are two different things.

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2641 by ringo, posted 08-24-2020 10:01 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2646 by ringo, posted 08-24-2020 8:50 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2648 of 3207 (881628)
08-26-2020 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 2642 by NosyNed
08-24-2020 11:11 AM


Re: Relativity
Hi Ned,
Ned writes:
Yes, and the amount is exactly calculated by general relativity.
And I thought the calculation's were made by a computer using information derived from the difference in elevation with the difference in the time's the clocks kept.
Ned writes:
I don't think I really know what time is other than 1 of the components of spacetime.
You can't see it, or feel it except you seem to get tired between events, like the light of day starting and the close of darkness.
But how do you know it is a component of what is called space time.
I know what space is. Its the place we can move through by displacing the atoms that occupy it.
I know what time is. It is the duration between events in eternity that is determined by the concept of time created by mankind for that purpose. In the beginning they used shadows cast by the sun, I think those clocks were called sun dial clocks. But we got smart and figured out how we built a time piece we call clocks and watches. Later it was discovered that you could excite some atoms and get them to fluctuate at the same speed. How to capture them and come up with an atomic clock. Notice all atoms do not fluctuate at the same speed. I thought it was amazing how they could excite them and then to capture those that were fluctuating at the same rate. But that is no more than a man made clock it is just a lot more accurate than mechanical clocks.
Ned writes:
It appears to be simply one of the dimensions of that 4 dimensional object.
Why is it necessary that time be a dimension? You can't measure time so how is it a dimension? You can measure height, width, and depth, but you can't measure time. If you can please explain it to me?
Ned writes:
No, they don't. But to discuss that you will have to name those smart folks and how they support their views.
Here is one examination of the facts you can read, for yourself.
http://www.conspiracyoflight.com/...cRel/TheSagnacEffect.pdf
I don't know if you remember my discussion of the light bouncing between two mirrors or not. In my discussion I used a train with a lazer beam pointed at the ground on the back of the train. There were mirrors in the middle of the tracks that triggered the lazer to fire as it passed over the mirror. The lazer fired and hit the mirror every time even though the train was traveling at 1/2 the speed of light. The beam hit the mirror and bounced vertical to the point it was fired from. Light goes in a straight line from the point emitted.
Ned writes:
If you mean Sagnac his experiments were shown to be compatible with relativity over a century ago so that doesn't count.
What experiment did that?
The Hafele and Keating experiment proved the Sagnac effect did occur.
Gps proves the Sagnac effect does occur and clocks have to be adjusted to compensate for the Sagnac effect as well as gravitational effect.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2642 by NosyNed, posted 08-24-2020 11:11 AM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2650 by Phat, posted 08-27-2020 8:12 AM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2649 of 3207 (881629)
08-26-2020 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 2646 by ringo
08-24-2020 8:50 PM


Re: [qs=Re: After We Die
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
First, a lot of that "information" is wrong.
Be specific. What did I say that was wrong.
ringo writes:
Yes they are.
Maybe according to you but not according to the Hebrew language.
ringo writes:
You know nothing about Biblical Hebrew. I'll stick with the translators.
I put my pants on the same way they do, one leg at the time.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2646 by ringo, posted 08-24-2020 8:50 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2654 by ringo, posted 08-27-2020 12:37 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


(1)
Message 2659 of 3207 (881742)
08-28-2020 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 2654 by ringo
08-27-2020 12:37 PM


Re: [qs=Re: After We Die
Hi ringo,
ringo writes:
Anybody can see that living things die if they lose too much blood.
Why do you die if you lose too much blood?
Bleeding people was the scientific way of curing all kinds of sickness until it was discovered what the circulatory system does.
The circulatory system was discovered in 1628 by an English anatomist William Harvey.
The 1923 edition of the Principles and Practice of Medicine recommended bloodletting and was a widely used text in the training of physicians.
Finally it was discovered that the blood transports energy and oxygen and removes the waste from the cells.
So the blood is not the life of the flesh but the life of the flesh is in the blood, the energy and oxygen required for existence.
Moses was correct. If you disagree give your reasons the life of the flesh is not in the blood.
ringo writes:
A circle is flat.
Are you saying the earth is flat?
ringo writes:
Curtains and tents don't expand. They unfold.
Have you ever slept on at tent? I have slept in one, first I unfolded it and spread it out, then I expanded it so I would not have to sleep laying on the ground on top of it. After I expanded it I was able to go inside and set up my cot and enjoy. Just like the universe was expanded.
ringo writes:
It doesn't say that. It says the WATER was in one place
Well if it was all in one place there was none one the land anywhere. Which would have made the land in one place.
ringo writes:
That isn't about land masses. It's a just-so story about why people speak different languages.
The earth is not people.
quote:
11:4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
11:9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
He scattered them abroad across the earth. He did not divide them.
ringo writes:
He gave three different difinitions in Genesis 1-2.
What three definitions?
ringoYou know nothing about the Hebrew language.
Then take any scripture I have commented on in the last 10 years using the Hebrew language and show me where what I said was wrong. Especially since you know so much about it.
ringo writes:
That doesn't give you any expertise in the Hebrew language
Well my teachers who taught me enough for me to receive a Bible Language degree would probably disagree with you. But you wouldn't believe them as you don't believe anyone but ringo as you are your own God and know everything.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2654 by ringo, posted 08-27-2020 12:37 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2660 by DrJones*, posted 08-28-2020 4:48 PM ICANT has replied
 Message 2662 by ringo, posted 08-28-2020 9:33 PM ICANT has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2675 of 3207 (881797)
08-30-2020 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 2660 by DrJones*
08-28-2020 4:48 PM


Re: [qs=Re: After We Die
Hi Dr,
Dr writes:
no he's saying the earth is not a circle. A circle is a 2d object, the earth is a 3d object. This is elementary grade material.
If I look at sun, or moon I see a circle. If I see them as a circle does that mean they are flat?
As far as that goes the 1611 definition of the word 'circle' encompassed the whole body or solid matter of a round substance, are denominated a circle; a ring; an orb; the earth.
If I say I see the earth sitting on the circle of the sun does that mean either is flat?
Dr writes:
exactly the people were scattered across the earth, doesn't say anything about the earth itself moving.
But Genesis 10:25 specifically states: "for in his days the earth divided". It says nothing about the families or people, or the ones building the tower.
I think science teaches that the earth did divide in the past, or did I misunderstand what is taught?
quote:
Genesis 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
The verses preceding this verse talks about the people who were building a tower to heaven. Them he scattered upon the face of the earth.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2660 by DrJones*, posted 08-28-2020 4:48 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2676 by DrJones*, posted 08-30-2020 4:11 PM ICANT has replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 2677 of 3207 (881801)
08-30-2020 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 2676 by DrJones*
08-30-2020 4:11 PM


Re: [qs=Re: After We Die
Hi Dr,
Dr writes:
1611 is much later then when the bible was actually written.
But that is when the KJV bible was translated from Hebrew and Greek to English. And the definition given was for the English word circle at that time.
God Bless,

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2676 by DrJones*, posted 08-30-2020 4:11 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2678 by DrJones*, posted 08-30-2020 10:20 PM ICANT has not replied

  
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