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Author Topic:   I Know That God Does Not Exist
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2596 of 3207 (881113)
08-18-2020 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2595 by ICANT
08-18-2020 11:07 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
Could you give me your definition of time so we can get on the same page as I think I am talking about one thing and you are talking about a totally different thing, or entity.
According to Wikipedia:
quote:
Time is the indefinite continued progress of existence and events that occur in an apparently irreversible succession from the past, through the present, into the future.
Note the word "irreversible". You can't give and take time like you can give and take apples. You can't give away all of tour time and have no time left like you can give away all of your apples and have no apples left.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2595 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 11:07 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2598 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 2:13 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2606 of 3207 (881163)
08-18-2020 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 2597 by ICANT
08-18-2020 1:06 PM


Re: After We Die
ICANT writes:
There are only a couple of those books that talk about the one God.
The point is that they're on the same plane as the Bible.
ICANT writes:
Water existed eternally before Genesis 1:2... blah, blah, blah....
I don't care what contortions you go through to try to explain away the errors. You asked for errors and I gave you errors.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2597 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 1:06 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2608 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 8:55 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2607 of 3207 (881164)
08-18-2020 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2598 by ICANT
08-18-2020 2:13 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
According to that definition time and existence are the same thing.
It says that time is the PROGRESS of existence.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2598 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 2:13 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2610 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 10:26 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2609 of 3207 (881171)
08-18-2020 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2608 by ICANT
08-18-2020 8:55 PM


Re: After We Die
ICANT writes:
Show me where anything else was created.
I showed you where the science errors are. That's what we were talking about. Your nit-picking erroneous interpretation of the words is a different topic.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2608 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 8:55 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2612 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 11:05 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2611 of 3207 (881174)
08-18-2020 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 2610 by ICANT
08-18-2020 10:26 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
Existence has no progress and can not be measured.
The definition disagrees with you.
Edited by ringo, : Spilling.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2610 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 10:26 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2613 by ICANT, posted 08-19-2020 12:07 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2614 of 3207 (881189)
08-19-2020 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 2612 by ICANT
08-18-2020 11:05 PM


Re: After We Die
ICANT writes:
There was light before water in Genesis 1:1.
It doesn't say that.
ICANT writes:
There was sun and moon in Genesis 1:1.
It doesn't say that.
ICANT writes:
In the generations of the day God created the heavens and the earth in Genesis 1:1.
It doesn't say anything about generations. How can you have generations in one day?
ICANT writes:
The plants was after the sun and moon.
It doesn't say that.
ICANT writes:
You believe everything was created in chapter 1:2-31.
I don't believe any such thing but that's what the Bible says.
ICANT writes:
Everything except a great fish Gen. 1:21, and mankind in the image and likeness of God Gen. 1:27 was created in Genesis 1:1...
It doesn't say that.
ICANT writes:
... and the generations of that day lays out how.
There are no generations in a single day.
ICANT writes:
I can't help it if you are like a lot of people I know. Their attitude is they know what they believe and don't want to be bothered with the facts.
As I said, I don't believe a word of it - but it says what it says.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2612 by ICANT, posted 08-18-2020 11:05 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2619 by ICANT, posted 08-20-2020 3:55 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2615 of 3207 (881190)
08-19-2020 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2613 by ICANT
08-19-2020 12:07 AM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
As you see you can find any and all kinds of definitions of time.
You only asked for one. The other ones that you cited pretty much agree with the one I cited and disagree with you.
ICANT writes:
5. University of Helsinki Before the Big Bang, there was no space or time.
It says there was no concept of time:
quote:
"In the theory of relativity, the concept of time begins with the Big Bang the same way as parallels of latitude begin at the North Pole. You cannot go further north than the North Pole," says Kari Enqvist, Professor of Cosmology.
Some religions have no concept of hell but that has no bearing on the existence of hell.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2613 by ICANT, posted 08-19-2020 12:07 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2616 by ICANT, posted 08-19-2020 3:43 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2618 of 3207 (881209)
08-19-2020 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 2616 by ICANT
08-19-2020 3:43 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
The concept of time did not actually exist until after Genesis 1:1 was written...
That isn't true. People had a concept of time long before Genesis was written.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2616 by ICANT, posted 08-19-2020 3:43 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2621 by ICANT, posted 08-20-2020 4:31 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2624 of 3207 (881280)
08-21-2020 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 2619 by ICANT
08-20-2020 3:55 PM


Re: After We Die
ICANT writes:
I have never seen an evening that did not close a light period.
Well, you weren't there in Genesis 1.
If there was a "first day", then it had to start with either an evening or a morning. In case you haven't heard, the Jewish day always starts at sundown, so the first day COULD NOT close a light period.
ICANT writes:
Are you saying the sun and moon are not part of the universe?
I said they were not there on Day One.
ICANT writes:
If they are part of the universe they were created when the heavens and the earth was created in Genesis 1:1.
Nope. The Bible says explicitly that they were not created until Day Four.
ICANT writes:
The Hebrew....
There's no point in discussing Hebrew with you. You can't even read English. See above.
ICANT writes:
If you don't believe what it says why are you telling me what it says.
That's a silly question. I don't have to believe The Lord of the Rings is true to know what it says.
ICANT writes:
So God did some work on two great lights. Notice they were not created, brought into existence.
It says God MADE two great lights.
ICANT writes:
It says what it means, and means what it says.
And you don't know either what it says or what it means.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2619 by ICANT, posted 08-20-2020 3:55 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2629 by ICANT, posted 08-21-2020 5:09 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2625 of 3207 (881281)
08-21-2020 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 2621 by ICANT
08-20-2020 4:31 PM


Re: No evidence = irrational
ICANT writes:
What was that concept based upon 3800 years ago?
Pretty much what it was 5000 years ago and 10000 years ago: days, months, years - the progress of events.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2621 by ICANT, posted 08-20-2020 4:31 PM ICANT has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2632 of 3207 (881332)
08-22-2020 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 2629 by ICANT
08-21-2020 5:09 PM


Re: After We Die
ICANT writes:
But the writer of Genesis was told what to write in a book.
The writers were not there either - and there's no reason to think their source was accurate.
ICANT writes:
First off there is no first day referred to in Genesis 1:5, only day one.
See, that's why I say you can't read English. Day One is by definition the first day.
ICANT writes:
Genesis 1:1 tells us God created the heavens and the earth.
Genesis 2:4 tells us the heavens and earth was created in one day. Therefore...
Therefore there is a discrepancy. That's all we can say about it.
ICANT writes:
... God's definition of a day is light would mean that they were created in a light period.
Non sequitur. In Genesis One, the word "Day" is used for both the light part of the day and the whole day: "The evening and the morning were the nth day."
ICANT writes:
How many hours can you get between evening and morning....
Twenty-four.
ICANT writes:
ringo writes:
I said they were not there on Day One.
And you know that because.
Because it says explicitly that they were created on Day Four.
ICANT writes:
ringo writes:
I don't have to believe The Lord of the Rings is true to know what it says.
Now who was that that could not understand English.
Still you. If you think you've made a point here, you'll have to make it plainer. I don't have to believe The Lord of the Rings is true to know what it says.
ICANT writes:
ringo writes:
And you don't know either what it says or what it means.
Since you are so smart why don't you explain it to me?
I have been explaining it to you. For example: Day One is by definition the first day.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2629 by ICANT, posted 08-21-2020 5:09 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2633 by Phat, posted 08-22-2020 3:51 PM ringo has replied
 Message 2639 by ICANT, posted 08-24-2020 12:35 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 2636 of 3207 (881390)
08-23-2020 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 2633 by Phat
08-22-2020 3:51 PM


Re: After We Die
Phat writes:
If so, there is no reason to think that God is even necessary.
Bingo.
Phat writes:
There is no reason to think that if He does exist He has the capability of communing with us.
Actually, it's more like: If He does exist, WE don't have the ability to receive communications from Him.
Phat writes:
You have thrown the Holy Baby out with the bathwater...
On the contrary, I have checked the bath water very carefully for babies and there are none there. You, on the other hand, are so terrified of losing the baby that you're keeping the same filthy bath water forever. Don't you know that dirty water won't get you clean?
Phat writes:
... and placed all of your chips on human wisdom and our interpretation of evidence.
Which is all we have.
Phat writes:
Shame on you.
Shame on YOU for falsely accusing me of child abuse.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2633 by Phat, posted 08-22-2020 3:51 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2637 by jar, posted 08-23-2020 10:12 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2641 of 3207 (881443)
08-24-2020 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 2639 by ICANT
08-24-2020 12:35 AM


Re: [qs=Re: After We Die
ICANT writes:
I don't think they spent 80 days and nights without God telling him what He wanted wrote down in a book.
It doesn't matter what you think - and there's no reason to think that that part of the story is accurate either.
ICANT writes:
What discrepancy?
The one we're talking about, the discrepancy between the usage of the word "day" in Genesis1 and Genesis 2.
ICANT writes:
If you made an appointment to meet somebody at 12:00 tomorrow, when would you show up at noon or midnight?
We'd have to decide on that when we made the appointment.
ICANT writes:
Evening is at 6 PM Morning is 6 AM even in the Jewish day and you can pack no more than 12 hours into that.
Nonsense. Evening and morning are not fixed times on the clock. The phrase refers to a 24-hour day.
ICANT writes:
So why are you insistent that created does exist in those verses.
The word "made" exists in verse 16.
ICANT writes:
ringo writes:
Day One is by definition the first day.
As I said the first day of what?
The first day of creation.
ICANT writes:
One and First are two differ words.
Which refer to the same thing.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2639 by ICANT, posted 08-24-2020 12:35 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2643 by ICANT, posted 08-24-2020 2:03 PM ringo has replied
 Message 2644 by Phat, posted 08-24-2020 4:05 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2646 of 3207 (881503)
08-24-2020 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 2643 by ICANT
08-24-2020 2:03 PM


Re: [qs=Re: After We Die
ICANT writes:
Where did Moses get this information from to be able to write it down 2800 years ago?
First, a lot of that "information" is wrong.
ICANT writes:
Made is not creation, they are not the same.
Yes they are.
ICANT writes:
Maybe one and first are the same thing to you but in Biblical Hebrew they are two different things.
You know nothing about Biblical Hebrew. I'll stick with the translators.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2643 by ICANT, posted 08-24-2020 2:03 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2649 by ICANT, posted 08-26-2020 1:48 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2647 of 3207 (881506)
08-24-2020 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 2644 by Phat
08-24-2020 4:05 PM


Re: [qs=Re: After We Die
Phat writes:
Dont you see how your thought process mirrors my quote exactly?
No, I don't see any connection at all. You'll have to be more specific.
Phat writes:
I think and believe that a WHO created the universe and defines reality whereas you believe that a WHAT(Logic and evidence defined by humans) created all that is real and actual.
We usually use the word "who" for humans. An entity so far above us would more appropriately be called a "what". The difference is that my what exists.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2644 by Phat, posted 08-24-2020 4:05 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2651 by Phat, posted 08-27-2020 8:34 AM ringo has replied

  
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