Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 61 (9042 total)
93 online now:
DrJones*, ICANT (2 members, 91 visitors)
Newest Member: maria
Post Volume: Total: 886,022 Year: 3,668/14,102 Month: 288/321 Week: 104/44 Day: 20/26 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Broken Thinking Skills & Pointless Discussion
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3 of 65 (881314)
08-22-2020 4:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tangle
08-22-2020 2:51 AM


Ripleys Believe It Or Not
Tangle writes:

The real problem is that humankind has only recently learned how to reason in quantity. It’s spent many thousands of years not reasoning, relying on superstition, folk stories and doctrine - only a minority of humanity can do it naturally now.

I personally feel that I learn a lot here in regards to being exposed to the critical thinking skills that many of you take for granted. Yes, I believe that God talks to me, though very rarely and often quite subtly. It is very rarely perceived as an audible voice but more of an epiphany...an impression. It often happens when I first awaken from the completion of a sleep cycle and just coming out of REM sleep and going back to shallow consciousness. I am sure there is a scientific explanation that need not necessitate God, so I wont bother trying to somehow prove that it is He. Message 82

Tangle writes:

I've been reading a few threads on Evolution Fairy Tales, it's an echo chamber for even more of these wing-nuts ruled over by the self-impressed Mike the Wiz. He turns up here from time-to-time to show off his superior knowledge of fallacies. He's a weird one. He knows about logic but he can't apply it. He's a transitional human - the irony. He really thinks that he can think rationally but he can't.

Yes, Mikey is unique. He is not as prone to commentary on current events and politics as was Faith, however. Faith was an extreme and rare example of the whole package. She has more posts at EvC than anyone else here, and anyone perusing our archives will see and hear plenty of her! She ultimately got banned from our forum due to the seriousness of COVID 19 and her refusing to stop spreading false and potentially dangerous misinformation on a psuedo-scientific rumor for a "cure". Message 83 Note Tangles exchange with me here.

quote:
The only rational way to treat people who believe things that are clearly untrue - like invisible snakes biting them - is to try to help them realize their error. What we don't do is teach the efficacy of invisible snake venom to our medical students.

Look, in regards to Creationism, I am but a Cosmological Creationist. I believe that God exists and is the original source of creation . Biblical Creationism and ID never held much interest for me. Keep in mind that we are, after all, Evolution versus Creationism. Broken down further, we are Evidence Based Thinking vs Rational/Irrational Belief based thinking. Loons are necessary on a forum such as this. They provide an opportunity for contrasting and comparing thought processes.

Note our exchange beginning here: Message 85

tangle writes:

And he's missed me out entirely - what sort of a god would do that?

He sent me to interact with you. I will admit that I could do a better job. Perhaps I need more critical thinking skills...which might then mean that He sent me here in order to learn to throw Him away, as jar often suggests.

Tangle writes:

This gap can not be bridged without education because without education these people 'know not what they say'. They think they're using science but they're not because they don't know what science is, they've never been exposed to it, never experienced it and their egos are so large that they think their armchair theorizing *is* science.

I don't think that there's much to be done about this except educate, educate, educate and let a lot of time go by.

I think that just as Jesus said that the poor will always be with us, it is true also that the loons will always be with us.

And I will admit that I am guilty of having a big ego at times.

Edited by Phat, : spellcheck


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tangle, posted 08-22-2020 2:51 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by PaulK, posted 08-22-2020 5:13 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 5 by Tangle, posted 08-22-2020 6:04 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 38 by mike the wiz, posted 09-14-2020 7:18 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 10 of 65 (881575)
08-25-2020 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
08-23-2020 8:51 AM


Re: Creation vs Evolution has been settled for over a century
Why cant it be Creation and evolution? You will never convince me that a Creator of all seen and unseen didnt start it all, and is personified through Jesus Christ but I am not a Biblical Creationist.

As I have said before, I am but a Cosmological Creationist.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 08-23-2020 8:51 AM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by dwise1, posted 08-26-2020 1:42 AM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 12 of 65 (881599)
08-26-2020 2:47 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by dwise1
08-26-2020 1:42 AM


Re: Creation vs Evolution has been settled for over a century
Double Post

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by dwise1, posted 08-26-2020 1:42 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 13 of 65 (881600)
08-26-2020 2:49 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by dwise1
08-26-2020 1:42 AM


Re: Creation vs Evolution has been settled for over a century
I think that by and large I agree with you. There is no objective way to know about the possibility or actuality of supernatural things. SAome prefer to use the definition unexplained rather than supernatural.
Websters 1827 Dictionary writes:

SUPERNAT'URAL, adjective [super and natural.] Being beyond or exceeding the powers or laws of nature; miraculous. A supernatural event is one which is not produced according to the ordinary or established laws of natural things. Thus if iron has more specific gravity than water, it will sink in that fluid; and the floating of iron on water must be a supernatural event. Now no human being can alter a law of nature; the floating of iron on water therefore must be caused by divine power specially exerted to suspend, in this instance, a law of nature. Hence supernatural events or miracles can be produced only by the immediate agency of divine power.

OR

adj.
1. Of or relating to existence outside the natural world.
2. Attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces.
3. Of or relating to a deity.
4. Of or relating to the immediate exercise of divine power; miraculous.
5. Of or relating to the miraculous.
n.
That which is supernatural.

Some may say I prefer fantasy over reality. Some would say I was mentally ill. I feel fine and don't even think about such things on a daily basis.

But I will state while placing my hand on a Bible that to the best of my understanding, an unexplained realm exists and is observable by me. I trust that some day all will have the opportunity to see it also.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by dwise1, posted 08-26-2020 1:42 AM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by dwise1, posted 08-26-2020 2:56 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 15 by Tangle, posted 08-26-2020 3:09 AM Phat has responded
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 08-26-2020 12:25 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 16 of 65 (881613)
08-26-2020 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Tangle
08-26-2020 3:09 AM


Re: Creation vs Evolution has been settled for over a century
You come here everyday and talk about what you've been researching, reading and talking about.
True. But what I mean is that I dont see or hear voices, believe that I experience Gods audible voice, or see demons on a daily basis. In fact, it is a skill that I believe is developed and only if one is living right and focusing on Spiritual things versus Ego, impressing other people, or fleecing a flock.

You guys make the mistake of assuming that if God speaks to one guy (through impressions, dreams, voice, or whatever) than by logic He should simply speak to everyone. This is where you error. Even among Christians, not more than (I would guess) 10-20% of them even have had such experiences. They are not loons, though. They are people who pray frequently and have a relationship with God, study scripture, and fast occasionally. They cannot be gluttons, arrogant, greedy for money, power, or prestige, living sinfully or thinking that all gods are relativistic concepts of human minds. That would be unbelief and also loony, I might add.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Tangle, posted 08-26-2020 3:09 AM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 08-26-2020 11:47 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 19 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-26-2020 1:58 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 22 of 65 (881760)
08-29-2020 5:44 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Hyroglyphx
08-26-2020 11:11 PM


Re: Creation vs Evolution has been settled for over a century
How exactly is/was faith supposed to work?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-26-2020 11:11 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by dwise1, posted 09-09-2020 6:28 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 26 of 65 (882056)
09-09-2020 7:13 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by dwise1
09-09-2020 6:28 PM


Re: Creation vs Evolution has been settled for over a century
I enjoy reading your posts, by the way.

dwise1 writes:

One abiding theme for so many is that they did not want to deconvert. Rather, reason had led them inexorably to the point of realizing that their faith did not work. They wanted so desperately for their faith to still work, but they realized that their faith could not work. It was so painful for most of them, but once you have seen the light, you cannot return to the darkness.(...)My impression is that that is what you were asking about. So what is your exact question?

I guess I was asking Hyroglyphix to explain what no longer worked for him faithwise. Was it the trap of Biblical Literalism? I know that for me personally, some facts matter, some are unproven, and some are inconsequential.

I could care less if the earth is/was 5000 years old, 10,000 years old or 5 billion years old.
I dont care whether Adam, Eve, and the snake were literal or metaphorical. All I care to explore are the various philosophical lines of thought regarding the stories and myths.

On the other hand, I have chosen to care very much on the literalness of a Virgin Birth and a Character of a Man who was in the Beginning...Jesus Christ. I need that reality or my faith ceases to work. I have gone to great lengths to prove it to myself and to believe it, but all that I have is some subjective eexperiences of having a transformed mind one day and of seeing (hearing) what I labled as supernatural manifestations and what ringo labels as unexplained.

Hanging out with like-minded believers is comforting to my flesh at best. My spirit is restless.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by dwise1, posted 09-09-2020 6:28 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Tangle, posted 09-10-2020 3:48 AM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 28 of 65 (882070)
09-10-2020 5:47 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Tangle
09-10-2020 3:48 AM


Re: Creation vs Evolution has been settled for over a century
The whole pack of cards is only held together by Jesus Christ anyways.

Biblical Literal-ism does not have to be true but the Virgin Birth and character of Jesus Christ does.

When jar says that even if Jesus was simply a mythical character told in a tale around a campfire,the message still has value he fails to realize that if Jesus is not literal and Divine the whole pack of cards does collapse.

But fear not. I will never believe the Christian(anti-christian more likely) Mythologists anyway. Now before I go back to sleep, I would be wise to pray. I can feel myself getting a bit feisty, snippy, and carnal in my replies to you.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Tangle, posted 09-10-2020 3:48 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 09-10-2020 7:38 AM Phat has responded
 Message 32 by Tangle, posted 09-10-2020 5:39 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 33 by Stile, posted 09-11-2020 2:10 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 30 of 65 (882081)
09-10-2020 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by jar
09-10-2020 7:38 AM


Is Christianity A Pointless Discussion?
jar writes:

Christianity is but one path, one set of rules, one club, one vision, one set of possible choices. A set.

It is not unified or unique or in any way special. It is designed and created by humans for humans.

Perhaps you have a point, but I would argue that what makes Christianity unique is the character of Jesus Christ. Perhaps in a Science Thread such as this one, we have a dead end.
jar writes:

You need to learn what literal means.

Look at the Bible. There are dozens of literal description of god. Each literally describes a character that is literally different than all the other descriptions of god in the Bible. The God of Genesis 1 is not the God of Genesis 2 or the God of Exodus.

This is also true of the descriptions of Jesus in the Bible. The literal descriptions literally describe different characters. The Jesus of the Synoptic Gospels is different than the Jesus of John.

The debates center around the possibility and probability of whether One God (described many different ways and interpreted to be of many varied characters) actually exists and what the implication is for humanity. Unless God is just an observer watching His kids grow up.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 09-10-2020 7:38 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 09-10-2020 10:43 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 34 of 65 (882124)
09-11-2020 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Stile
09-11-2020 2:10 PM


Re: Creation vs Evolution has been settled for over a century
Your suggested consensus sounds rational to me.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Stile, posted 09-11-2020 2:10 PM Stile has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 49 of 65 (882345)
09-18-2020 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by AnswersInGenitals
09-18-2020 2:43 PM


Re: Will the true Creator please step forward.
The ongoing problem with this line of thinking is relativism regarding "gods". There is only One. You all cant understand how its not the same for everybody, but we do in fact have created "gods" in our minds. Some of us have found the right one...the only One. Of course we will never prove it to you skeptics. Perhaps you would do well to be on the lookout yourselves for evidence...dont challenge us to provide you with ours. (yes, it is subjective) If you are honest, you should realize that if One God exists and became human in order to relate to humans, you first have to even want to know this God. If you dont, God Himself cant/wont help you. Which for some of you is fine. Keep on keeping on, but some day you will remember your decisions.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 09-18-2020 2:43 PM AnswersInGenitals has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by AZPaul3, posted 09-18-2020 4:07 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 51 by Tangle, posted 09-18-2020 4:12 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 52 by jar, posted 09-18-2020 4:30 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 53 by PaulK, posted 09-18-2020 4:30 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 59 of 65 (882665)
10-04-2020 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Tangle
10-04-2020 5:22 AM


Un-Critical Thinking
I watched the 2nd video(the edited highlights) and can see your point. (I think) Though I'm quite sure that much of my thought process is also "broken" and uncritical. I know that I will never "throw God away" as jar suggests, yet am learning why I fall on this side of the fence rather than on Richard Dawkins side.

I watched an old discussion between Richard Dawkins and Wendy White a creationist.
I think there is a basic difference between a Biblical Creationist and a Cosmological Creationist,as I claim to be.
Tangle writes:

Like all fundie creationists she equates evolution with atheism and atheism with evil, to her they obviously all seem to be the same thing and all merge into one in her mind. The fact that most of the Christian churches accept evolution doesn't change anything for her.

By "most of the Christian Churches" you are likely referring to the Roman Catholic position which fully accepts Evolutioon as a viable concept. Im quite sure that most all Episcopal Churches would agree and that only thew modern day evangelical fundamentalists would put up much of a fuss.

Were I to categorize myself, I would say that I am more of a charismatic than anything else. I have no problem with Biological Evolution on earth as a valid and evidenced method to explain origins here. This puts me firmly in a different camp than Mike The Wiz or our indefinitely suspended member Faith as well as many of the church people whom I know who otherwise believe in the supernatural and in some of the un-evidenced beliefs that I do. All I know is that for me personally, I could never even conceive of being an atheist.So I'm at odds with both camps.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Tangle, posted 10-04-2020 5:22 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Tangle, posted 10-04-2020 8:49 AM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 63 by jar, posted 10-04-2020 9:43 AM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 60 of 65 (882666)
10-04-2020 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by PaulK
09-18-2020 4:30 PM


Re: Will the true Creator please step forward.
PaulK writes:

There is no decision involved. I can’t decide to want something that I really don’t understand. And you giving a very negative view of God doesn’t help. Although I guess that may be because you don’t know God at all.

Ouch. That hurt, but I will take it as a loving rebuke. One question, though. If you cant decide to want something that you really dont understand, why do you self identify as an atheist rather than an agnostic?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by PaulK, posted 09-18-2020 4:30 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by PaulK, posted 10-04-2020 9:08 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 64 of 65 (882680)
10-04-2020 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by jar
10-04-2020 9:43 AM


Re: an example of your Broken Thinking Skills
Finally I can relate to what you suggest, though it is not an easy thought process. There is fear that if I deconstruct God as I understand Him I will be left in the dark. Science Mike actually talks similar to you and I have been thinking outside my usual evangelical box lately....(well just a *little bit* outside!)

In all honesty:

I always keep the God I want. I throw all of the others soundly and firmly away.
I believe that GOD is also the living Spirit....the comforter promised through Jesus.
And I believe that GOD can be better understood through studying the Bible and Jesus than He(She,It) ever could through studying human literature.

But I appreciate your input. A good teacher challenges their students assumptions. All of you certainly;y challenge mine. Often I hate it. But I don't hate you.

I think I liked this post because you didn't call me stupid, accuse me of word salad, or say anything negative. It was refreshing, but I do note that you always encourage me to think.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by jar, posted 10-04-2020 9:43 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by jar, posted 10-04-2020 5:19 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2021