Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9162 total)
8 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 916,352 Year: 3,609/9,624 Month: 480/974 Week: 93/276 Day: 21/23 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Biased accounts of intelligent design
Jedothek
Junior Member (Idle past 1319 days)
Posts: 18
From: Pittsburgh
Joined: 08-14-2019


Message 139 of 150 (881481)
08-24-2020 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Taq
08-24-2020 5:08 PM


Re: Geting back to the question of ID
For specific answers to your first and second questions, you would do better to consult Meyers’ writings than to listen to my attempts at paraphrase; but I shall offer an argument in the form of a hypothetical illustration that, I think, demonstrates something despite its hypothetical character. Consider:
Scenario I: Suppose that in 1835 ( I am altering history for the purposes of clear illustration ) archaeologists had dug up from the sands of Mesopotamia the first cuneiform tablets seen since ancient times. Extraordinary, says one scholar, an unknown script. I shall copy these markings, publish them, and perhaps soon we shall decipher them and increase vastly our knowledge of ancient times.
Oh scoffs a colleague, what a fanciful notion. These are just natural formations, brought about by the action of wind and water.
Who would be taken seriously? The second scholar would be laughed at and dismissed. Why? Because cuneiform, even to those who cannot read it, is clearly intelligently designed. The hypothesis of artifice would be the only one taken seriously.
Scenario II: biologists discover a bewildering array of complex structures and processes in the cell: Flagella, mitochondria, the genetic code itself. One biologist says, This stuff looks intelligently designed to me.
His colleagues respond with outrage. That is unscientific they yell, intelligent design can never be a legitimate explanation in science. It is of the nature of science that we employ as hypotheses only natural processes.
In one case intelligent design is considered to be the only sensible hypothesis; in the other case ID is considered out of the question. What is the difference between the two scenarios? There is only one answer: mainstream scientists believe in human beings ( the putative creators of cuneiform), and they do not believe in God. They know that intelligent design occurs sometimes, but they reject such an explanation whenever it would imply God’s existence. We are faced here with nothing more or less than a dogmatic prejudice against theism — masquerading, of course, as objectivity.
The moral of the story is that we often recognize design without trouble, but when the design hypothesis offends a cherished dogma — in this case, atheism — suddenly no amount of evidence for design is deemed sufficient.
With regard to your third question, Taq, it is true that intelligent design is hard to falsify. In the case of the cuneiform tablets, to show that they are not intelligently designed, one would have to provide a detailed scenario of how they might have been formed by geological processes, and preferably show through experiment that wind and water could form such things. You are welcome to raise the question of burden of proof if you wish, but I warn you that the issue is more complicated than any treatment I have encountered.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Taq, posted 08-24-2020 5:08 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Stile, posted 08-25-2020 2:29 PM Jedothek has not replied
 Message 141 by Taq, posted 08-25-2020 6:33 PM Jedothek has replied

  
Jedothek
Junior Member (Idle past 1319 days)
Posts: 18
From: Pittsburgh
Joined: 08-14-2019


Message 142 of 150 (881652)
08-26-2020 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by Taq
08-25-2020 6:33 PM


Re: Geting back to the question of ID
"The difference is that we can observe new cells arising through natural processes. It's called biological reproduction."
But here the new cell arises from one of equal complexity. The old cell, especially its nucleic acid, already has the structure that, to some, looks designed. The question is: how did that complex structure arise originally?
An analogue to your statement would be: See, I have just photocopied the poem that we call ‘Ode to a Nightingale’; the copy was produced by an unintelligent machine working according to natural principles . Therefore, there is no need to suppose that there was some intelligent agent called a ‘poet’ who composed the poem originally.
Evolution is not atheism. There are tons of Christians who accept evolution as the process by which live diversified.
This is subtly wide of the mark. Evolution might have happened according to various processes (mechanisms). But when atheists see indications of intelligent design, they react irrationally because they fear that the evidence will lead them to believe in a superhuman designer, often supposed to be God.
I can take a single bacterium and put it in broth. The next day I have billions of new bacteria, all through natural processes. ID falsified.
See my response to your first point.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by Taq, posted 08-25-2020 6:33 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Taq, posted 08-31-2020 12:26 PM Jedothek has replied
 Message 145 by Capt Stormfield, posted 09-07-2020 6:00 PM Jedothek has not replied

  
Jedothek
Junior Member (Idle past 1319 days)
Posts: 18
From: Pittsburgh
Joined: 08-14-2019


Message 144 of 150 (881923)
09-05-2020 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by Taq
08-31-2020 12:26 PM


Re: Geting back to the question of ID
Jedothek: But here the new cell arises from one of equal complexity.
Taq: You need evidence for this assertion.
Jedothek: when organisms reproduce, the offspring, generally, is not any more complex that the parents. Are you denying this? If you are, then, on the the contrary it is you who need to give an example of increasing complexity in reproduction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Taq, posted 08-31-2020 12:26 PM Taq has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024