Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 83 (9005 total)
57 online now:
Aussie, AZPaul3, Son Goku, Tangle, vimesey (5 members, 52 visitors)
Newest Member: kanthesh
Upcoming Birthdays: AdminPhat
Post Volume: Total: 881,038 Year: 12,786/23,288 Month: 511/1,527 Week: 190/207 Day: 12/39 Hour: 0/0

Announcements: Topic abandonment warning (read and/or suffer the consequences)


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Discussion With A Conservative Pastor: I CANT & Phat Only..for now
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6384
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 46 of 56 (847769)
01-26-2019 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Phat
01-26-2019 1:53 AM


Re: Daddys Opportunities
Hi Phat,

Phat writes:

What was the reason? Did you tell everyone the same thing?

We just got back from visitation and we knocked on 300 doors this morning.

The reason we do this is because Jesus told His disciples to go into the world and make disciples and then to teach them the all things he had taught them.

The only reason for a churches existence is to carry out this mission He gave to it. We use door hangers that has a picture of our church on the front with our address, phone number and a invitation for them to come and worship with us and giving the church schedule.

On the back is God's simple plan of salvation. I designed these and make them myself.

We do not push anything we simply visit as a neighbor.

Phat writes:

I remember my Daddy as having a loving giving heart, but also a man that had not fully learned to be honest with himself and open up.

My dad was one of the greatest people I ever knew. He never hurt anyone but he could have. He wa 6'1 weighed 245 lbs and wore size 33 britches and could lift the front end of a farmall super A tractor off the ground. He would help anybody and did. If you needed his shirt he would have taken it off and gave it to you. All of this before he was born again. I had been born again for 14 years before my dad was born again. But being good and being sincere does not satisfy God's requirement for entrance into heaven.

So we knock on doors and try to present an alternative for people to choose to believe God exists, loves them, and will save them. Rather than spend eternity with the devil.

Phat writes:

I won't feel guilty simply for not pushing Jesus onto them.

As I said we don't push or pressure people to be saved. I found out a long time ago if I convinced a person to be saved against their will that they were unconvinced still. Meaning they were still lost and probably never would get saved as they had a false belief.

One example of how I operate. My teenage brother in law whom I loved told me one day after I had witnessed to him on many occasion that he would get saved when he was ready. From that moment I never mention salvation to him again. I had done my job as he realized he needed to be saved. A few years later he was saved and went on to become a sunday school teacher and finally a deacon in the church.

We are to witness and set the example and then depend on God to finish the job.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 01-26-2019 1:53 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 03-22-2019 10:41 AM ICANT has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14583
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 47 of 56 (849814)
03-22-2019 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by ICANT
01-26-2019 12:56 PM


A BETTER MEDIATOR
A BETTER MEDIATOR

How are you doing, Pastor? A lot has been happening here in Denver recently. I won't get into the Labor Negotiations stuff...you can read about that in my other topic. What I wanted to talk about today were conversations that I had with two of my Pastors...or should I say former Pastors because one of them moved to California and the other one still heads up our church. To be honest, I don't get to church very often because I work on Sundays and also because I feel like I can't relate to the flock...they are very literalist and simple Bible Believing people who know very little about science and who never engage in any debates as we do here at EvC...though they are good at debating/discussing scripture.
Here is what Pastor Joe posts on Facebook.

A mediator is a person who seeks to resolve conflicts, bringing about a negotiated peace between two parties who are at odds with one another. The conflict between God and mankind is not one that a mediator can simply negotiate away. Something deep — God’s holiness — has been transgressed and the required mediation involves the offending party to make it right. The enmity between God and humanity calls for something much more significant than a typical negotiation. Something supernatural needs to occur to bring about a resolution in the conflict between God’s holiness and fallen human beings.

Though we see Moses functioning as a mediator in Deuteronomy 5:5, Christians have a mediator who is far superior to him. In fact, this mediator satisfied the terms of the negotiation himself by taking the punishment required to bring about peace and right the wrongs caused by our unrighteousness (Jer 31:31 – 34; Heb 9:14 – 15). Whereas Moses was unable to ensure the Lord’s continued favor as the leader of the Israelites, Jesus secured eternal blessing for those who find righteousness in him. Whereas the people of Israel feared the presence of God because of their sin (Dt 5:5), Christians may enter the presence of God boldly because of a perfect standing before the Lord through Jesus (Eph 3:12). In Jesus and through faith in him, believers may approach God with freedom and confidence that they will not be rejected or judged for shortcomings. His righteous perfection covers imperfection and provides admission into the presence of God. What a mediator is Christ Jesus!
Deuteronomy‬ ‭5:4-5‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

We can discuss this scripture if you want.

I have not heard from you in a while. You must be busy with your own flock doing the stuff you guys do.
Also, I wanted to share with you a conversation that I had with my Old Pastor in Cali. I edited the names so as to protect my friend's privacy. The conversation arose because of something I posted on Facebook. It was a New Age quote regarding the concept of love. I should have known that it would cause controversy!

https://scontent.fapa1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/...449684054016_n.jpg

facebook discussion between myself and others writes:


Pastor: You believe this?

Me: I know that God is love...not some vague universal energy force...and I also know that Jesus embodies perfect love and that only through Him can we truly love. Which leads me to wonder why I'm still selfish and stingy...

Mike: This is a new age philosophy bro not Biblical.

Me: I know that it is, Mike. Technically it is called syncretism, I believe. Part truth and part error. I know the difference. My mind works by comparing different philosophies and discerning truth vs error. I never listen to just one side in an argument or discussion...except when I pray. Then I surrender to His wisdom. Sometimes I post something without having really read it thoroughly...
When I teach, I present more than one argument (even if Jesus IS the right One ) so that people can see the subtle differences in philosophy.

Pastor: do you not take heed during your preaching time (teaching) Galatians 1:8,9 into account? It was Paul bringing a rebuke, not once but twice. I believe there has been many of these brought to you. Now, do you also teach while presenting an argument other than the Gospel that the Gospel of Christ is not of mere man's wisdom? To me, it makes more logical sense to believe the one who received it by divine revelation. Besides, that’s more epic! And another thing, I don’t care what anyone says. I believe it. I’m sure after all these years of educating yourself with man's wisdom it’s taken a toll on you. Perhaps (this is) why you're teaching mans wisdom as you compare it to the Truth.
In my opinion, you can’t compare apples to oranges. But, because I know you have always been into man's wisdom and ways I wouldn’t expect anything other.

All the years and you're still pondering and intrigued by the man of this world. Peace and Grace to you Brother. Hope all is well. I’m enjoying California for this season.

Me: I'm glad that you are doing well in Cali and I know that God is using you for a lot of great things. We really miss you here. I miss our arguments, and I have learned to accept rebuke...but a wise man seeks a multitude of council.

This whole idea of "the Bible says it..that settles it" theology will not reach the current generation or the techno world of today without the power of the Holy Spirit. Now I will agree that Gods wisdom is superior to man's wisdom. I DO need to humble myself. I want to go to lunch with Pastor Joe one of these days. I will admit that I can be a rebel.

Mike: If you abide in Me and My words abide in you, ask whatever you want and it will be given you. #REDLETTERJESUS apart from Me, you can do nothing!

Me I can never argue with scripture...at least in the NT. Some of that OT stuff is puzzling, though. Like that one part about the sun stopping!

Mark: May not be verbiage from the Bible, but the sentiment surely is biblical.

Arthur Will u feel painfully remorseful Craig if you stepped on a worm?

Me I can agree with my Pastors that human wisdom in and of itself is flawed. I do not consider myself a word for word literalist, but more of a thought for thought literalist. Let's take the story of the Flood. I have watched arguments about whether the event actually happened or not play themselves out many many times at EvC Forum, where I hang out. And in today's modern world one cannot be expected to literally believe this story without denying everything that humans have learned since the story was written. Pastor Age is right, though, in that sometimes you just have to believe. My point, if I have one, is that one need not believe a "Whole Bible" (in a word for word context) in order to be a believer.

Mike: (Phat), do you believe God lies to His people?

Me: ok...I'll go with this...WHO are His people? (For the record I believe that God cannot lie.)

Mike His people are whosoever believes, His whole word is truth yet when He says he stopped the sun, you call it a lie.


It goes on...

What would you say if you were a part of that conversation?

The rest of you can comment here:
Peanut Gallery Comments on Great Debate

Edited by Phat, : added link


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by ICANT, posted 01-26-2019 12:56 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by ICANT, posted 06-16-2020 2:51 PM Phat has responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6384
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 48 of 56 (877460)
06-16-2020 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Phat
03-22-2019 10:41 AM


Re: A BETTER MEDIATOR
Hi Phat,

Sorry it has been so long since I spoke to you in this debate.
I have been having a lot of trouble with my 2nd knee replacement surgery. Besides taking care of my duties as pastor. Age is becoming a real problem as I will be 81 in 3 months. This old body of flesh is wearing out.

Phat writes:

What would you say if you were a part of that conversation?

As far as mediator goes they are simply one or more between two or more parties trying to bring about an agreement between all involved.

Moses was an advocate for Israel with God, just as Jesus is our advocate with God today. An advocate is a personal lawyer who pleads the individual's case. Whether it is before God, an earthly judge or jury.

quote:
Mike: This is a new age philosophy bro not Biblical.

I guess Mike has never read the fourth chapter of 1 John where verse 8 and 16 both state "God is Love".

Then again he may have a bible that does not have 1 John in it.

quote:
Mike: If you abide in Me

Sounds like Mike is one of those people that believe all you have to do is ask God for something and He has to give it to you.

The magic words there is abide because if you are not abiding in Him you are not going to get anything until you are restored with Him by repenting and turning from the things God does not like.

I would like to ask you why you can't believe that the sun stood still at God's command?

Barrow Alaska has 2 months out of the year where there is light. That is due to the tilt of the earth in relation to the sun.

In the last 150 years the North Pole has moved about 685 miles. Today it is moving at an unprecedented rate toward London.

So to produce the long day nothing had to stop as the north pole could have shifted at a different rate or the earth could have slowed it rotation or both could have taken place at the same time.

So why couldn't God who created all those things control them to bring about His desires. Or as far as that goes God is light so He could have provided the light need for the long day without anything slowing, stopping, or even moving.

God says they had a long day which means they had a long day.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 03-22-2019 10:41 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Phat, posted 06-17-2020 5:50 AM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 50 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 06-19-2020 5:58 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14583
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 49 of 56 (877507)
06-17-2020 5:50 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by ICANT
06-16-2020 2:51 PM


Social Distancing & Eternal Security

ICANT writes:

I have been having a lot of trouble with my 2nd knee replacement
surgery. Besides taking care of my duties as pastor. Age is becoming a real problem as I will be 81 in 3 months. This old body of flesh is wearing out.


I have a couple of church related questions for you, Pastor.
1) Was your church affected by the recent social distancing guidelines and did it close for awhile or were you able to work around these legalities since your congregation is so small?
2) Do you believe that we are in the Last Days as a nation and/or world or do you simply teach as you have always taught and not worry about such extreme theology? I try and keep a balanced and open mind regarding such topics though I believe that we will see it within the next 100 years. I always joke with my customers in line at work. I tell them that God is warning America similar to how God warned Israel years before judgement. Essentially we are in a dress rehearsal and the Lord is challenging us to really try our best as people to get along with each other, respect each other, and essentially follow what Jesus taught were the two greatest commandments.

Also I wanted you to watch one of my favorite revivalist Pastors---in my opinion he is not selling snake oil and he is a much needed fire for the younger people in an otherwise apathetic church. Watch Isaiah Saldivar and tell me what you think of him.

Isaiah reaches much of his audience via the internet, though he also travels to churches to speak--under normal conditions. COVID-19 caused him to do more on the internet, but he is in my opinion a gifted Pastor with an Apostolic anointing who genuinely cares about the church in America today. Show him to some of the younger people in your congregation.

The rest of you can comment here:
Peanut Gallery Comments on Great Debate

Edited by Phat, : added peanut gallery link.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by ICANT, posted 06-16-2020 2:51 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
AnswersInGenitals
Member
Posts: 574
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 50 of 56 (877667)
06-19-2020 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by ICANT
06-16-2020 2:51 PM


“And still it moves.”
I would like to ask you why you can't believe that the sun stood still at God's command?
Barrow Alaska has 2 months out of the year where there is light. That is due to the tilt of the earth in relation to the sun.

Barrow also has two months of darkness. But, the sun does NOT appear to stand still! It skims along just above (summer) or just below (winter) the horizon! The only way that the sun would appear to stand still would occur if the earth’s rotational axis were pointed directly at the sun and you were standing exactly on the axis. But, of course, that is just how the sun appears due to the rotation of the earth. The sun does orbit around the galactic center so maybe that is the motion god brought to a halt for some reason. Or, if he wanted to provide a period of prolonged light he would just stop the earth’s rotation, which would have caused no ill effects since god did not create momentum until April 16, 512CE. (as long as we’re just inventing nonsense.)

The real question is ‘why did god want to crush and enslave the Amorites?’. Weren’t they also gods children, descendants of Adam and Eve?


this thread is private. please direct all comments to the peanut gallery thread.

Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by ICANT, posted 06-16-2020 2:51 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14583
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 51 of 56 (877708)
06-20-2020 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by ICANT
12-12-2018 1:02 AM


Reprinting ICANTs Advice On Scriptural Interpretation
There are five things you need to know to tell a story or understand it.

1. Who is speaking/writing?
2. To whom or about whom is he speaking/writing?
3. What subject is he speaking/writing about?
4. When or about what time is he speaking/writing?
5. What is the occasion for the speaking or writing?

We need to add the proper application rule to understand the Bible.

There is the general application of a truth or deed to every person.
And
The particular application of a truth or deed to an individual or particular group.

The first thing you need to know is who is speaking or writing?
1. Sometime God is speaking.
2. Sometime angels are speaking.
3. Sometime the devil is speaking.
4. Sometime prophets are speaking.
5. Sometime wicked men are speaking.
6. Sometime apostles are speaking.

Also some more Isaiah. I really respect the anointing this young man has.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by ICANT, posted 12-12-2018 1:02 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by ICANT, posted 08-07-2020 12:52 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14583
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 52 of 56 (878168)
06-26-2020 2:38 PM


Isaiah Saldivar On The COVID 19 & The Churches
How are you doing, ICANT? I edited this post because I wanted to show you what Isaiah Saldivar is preaching/teaching sharing with the public regarding COVID 19.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Edited by Phat, : replaced video with a better one.


“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6384
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 53 of 56 (880553)
08-07-2020 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Phat
06-20-2020 3:43 PM


Re: Reprinting ICANTs Advice On Scriptural Interpretation
Hi Phat,

I been preaching that message for the past 58 years.

Nobody listens or cares.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 06-20-2020 3:43 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6384
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 54 of 56 (880558)
08-07-2020 1:54 PM


BUMP
Hi Phat,

I mentioned coming here for some discussion.

From Message 415

quote:
Phat writes:

It is another to present a counter-argument, which I fail to see many creationists do.

But who is allowed to present any kind of counter-argument to the one held by most posters here?

Anyone presenting anything other than the standard pack of beliefs is ridiculed and told how they are stupid and do not know what they are talking about and they have no evidence because their evidence is based on a book of myths and their faith.

I have presented evidence in this post that requires a God to exist. I will restate it for clarity.

Fact one. The universe can not have existed eternally in the past. Second law of thermodynamics. "Reaches thermodynamic equilibrium."

Fact two. The universe has to have existed eternally in the past. The first law of thermodynamics. "Energy and matter can not be created or destroyed."

Fact three. The universe does exist. "WHY"?


You can not look at the above and come to any conclusion other than there is a God in control.

The CMBR is the greatest visible relic that is used to support the standard theory. The CMBR is the result of a very bright period of light in the past.

Did you know that the CMBR supports the Biblical creation story?

The light period that existed from the 'beginning' until Genesis 1:2 would have produced light in the universe that would be the same everywhere.

Genesis 1:1 tells us that "in the beginning" created God the heavens and the earth.
I have yet to find any person religious, or scientific that can tell me when the beginning was.

Scientist tells me the universe is about 13.8 billion years old. Gappers tell me it is very old with no known age. But they have to insert super long days in order to get their old universe. YEC's tell me it is between 10,000 and 6,000 years old.

Phat I believe the universe has always existed in some form just not in the form we see it today. Moses could not understand what God was telling him about creation of the universe. The reason I believe the universe has always existed is because God has always existed. So the energy and matter that compose our universe could not be created.

Evidence for Biblical creation:

1. CMBR
2. Land mass in one place.
3. Land mass divided.
4. Universe is expanding.

Science has discovered these things in the last few years but the Bible recorded them over 2800 hundred years ago.

These were not predictions but statements of fact that have been verified by science.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Phat, posted 08-17-2020 7:50 AM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14583
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 55 of 56 (881054)
08-17-2020 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by ICANT
08-07-2020 1:54 PM


Dr.John Lennox
Watch this presentation. A man with as much math knowledge as the late Dr.Hawking talks about the two worldviews of materialism and spiritual Trinitarian Monotheism that you and I are familiar with.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by ICANT, posted 08-07-2020 1:54 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14583
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 56 of 56 (881745)
08-28-2020 4:07 PM


Pastor Glenn
I wanted to share with you a local Pastor whom I respect. I respect him for several reasons. He is not political. He knows the Bible. He is humble and honest.

Though he preaches on fire....most folks here will think him to be a raging maniac.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020