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Author
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Topic: I Know That God Does Not Exist
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Phat
Member Posts: 18295 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2667 of 3207 (881774)
08-30-2020 10:30 AM
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Reply to: Message 2666 by jar
08-30-2020 7:22 AM
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WORD UP: What does the phrase mean in the Gospel Of John 1:1---->
So when your brain is turned on, do you agree with ringo that calling Jesus "The Word" is silly? Or do you understand why the majority of us believe that Jesus was in fact with GOD and was GOD?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ***
We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2666 by jar, posted 08-30-2020 7:22 AM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2668 by jar, posted 08-30-2020 10:51 AM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18295 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2669 of 3207 (881777)
08-30-2020 10:54 AM
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Reply to: Message 2668 by jar
08-30-2020 10:51 AM
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Re: WORD UP: What does the phrase mean in the Gospel Of John 1:1---->
OK Professor. What *did* the author of John mean to convey? By the way you do know that Raphael is now a fulltime Pastor in an established club of Christianity. Sounds as if he studied more than you do. You are a critically thinking skeptic who attempts (though won't succeed) in challenging and changing everything the Bible means. You market a Christless Christianity. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ***
We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2668 by jar, posted 08-30-2020 10:51 AM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2670 by jar, posted 08-30-2020 11:05 AM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18295 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2671 of 3207 (881782)
08-30-2020 1:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 2670 by jar
08-30-2020 11:05 AM
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Re: WORD UP: What does the phrase mean in the Gospel Of John 1:1---->
yes. I read both of you. As Christians, we need to market Christ before we market our responsibility. Otherwise we may as well quit playing games and simply call ourselves humanists.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ***
We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2670 by jar, posted 08-30-2020 11:05 AM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2672 by jar, posted 08-30-2020 2:51 PM | | Phat has not replied | | | Message 2674 by ringo, posted 08-30-2020 3:26 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18295 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2679 of 3207 (881930)
09-05-2020 3:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 2678 by DrJones*
08-30-2020 10:20 PM
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Re: [qs=Re: After We Die
Religion For The Non-Religious
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " ***
far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2678 by DrJones*, posted 08-30-2020 10:20 PM | | DrJones* has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2685 by Stile, posted 09-16-2020 12:51 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18295 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2691 of 3207 (885003)
03-18-2021 3:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 2690 by Percy
03-18-2021 1:57 PM
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Re: Einstein's God of Spinoza
Could it be argued that Angels and Demons, if they can be proven to exist at all, are also not objects in nature?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2690 by Percy, posted 03-18-2021 1:57 PM | | Percy has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2692 by Percy, posted 03-18-2021 4:49 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18295 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2700 of 3207 (885057)
03-20-2021 3:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 2699 by ringo
03-20-2021 12:28 PM
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Re: Einstein's God of Spinoza
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2699 by ringo, posted 03-20-2021 12:28 PM | | ringo has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18295 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2701 of 3207 (885058)
03-20-2021 4:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 2698 by AZPaul3
03-20-2021 11:51 AM
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Re: You The Man
AZPaul3 writes: The reality or not of what you insist we should believe is the only issue here. Is it?
Your god is non-existent. There is no reason to believe. Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to defend against that. Its a bit silly for me to defend or attempt to defend God. What I'm trying to do is to defend you against what you mistakenly think is your own intellect yet is really not you. Hint: Its NOT Religion.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2698 by AZPaul3, posted 03-20-2021 11:51 AM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2704 by AZPaul3, posted 03-20-2021 6:06 PM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18295 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2708 of 3207 (885070)
03-21-2021 9:37 AM
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Reply to: Message 2707 by AZPaul3
03-21-2021 3:48 AM
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Re: You The Man
*Tags raph.* I'll step in the ring for a moment, Raph. Go have a Gatorade...or some Holy Water. I aim to sprinkle a ton of it on AZPauls lawn, just to keep his ego in check. 
AZPaul3 writes: You believe. You believe in the god of Genesis. Yet, you don't believe in the full narrative of the Genesis account. Interesting. But not now. Hmm. So you determine what is and is not interesting? A Deity Complex to be sure. Let me double check, however.
the scientific method is known as the only method that does work, if by 'work' we mean accurately modeling the reality being examined. My bias is not negotiable. The science rules. The science rules nothing. You are allowed to keep your facts regarding the chemical constituency of water or gold or lead or whatever element you are examining. You are allowed to teach the laws of gravity, inertia, physics, and medicine. What you are not allowed to do is attempt to remove a mans belief. (or concept of belief) You are not allowed to write the default rules on how a human must think. Of course you will argue otherwise. You will claim that religion and belief are harmful to people. We can discuss these claims and will no doubt find many of them valid. But certainly not all. Yes, our God IS special. You know this, deep down and it burns. You would prefer to be Him yourself. To wit:
The only idea I wish to attack and dismiss is this concept of belief. Quite a chip you have there on your shoulder. You think that its time for you and science to rule? Explain to us better what it is that you want to rule over? Most scientists are happy just to find work. Research a few things. Earn a living making better Teflon or something similar. But not you.
It's a never ending cycle of endless hole filling. Endless learning. And god I do love it so, like the smell of cordite in the morning. We are taking your dead babies away from you. You now must eat salad with the rest of us. Keep up the humor, though. Humor can rule if it wants to.
Thank you, but I am quite comfortable with my understanding of things. And you don't want to grant us the same right? AZ writes: The only idea I wish to attack and dismiss is this concept of belief. So you wish to fill every hole. With the substance that all of society MUST agree on, correct? It wont happen. Take that to the Supreme Court! 
AZPaul3 writes: So now you're going to tell me how special your god is over all the others. You realize that's been beat to death, right? Yes, but after the crucifixion He rose again. You cant kill Him and you cant bury Him in a hole. Oh wait. Yes you can. He allowed you to do so. Have a nice day, AZ. Edited by Phat, : spellingEdited by Phat, : No reason given.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2707 by AZPaul3, posted 03-21-2021 3:48 AM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2709 by AZPaul3, posted 03-21-2021 1:45 PM | | Phat has not replied | | | Message 2710 by AZPaul3, posted 03-22-2021 11:31 AM | | Phat has seen this message but not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18295 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2717 of 3207 (885145)
03-25-2021 3:55 AM
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Reply to: Message 2711 by jar
03-22-2021 4:28 PM
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GOD vs God vs god
Now the crazies that believe in Phat's creation should rightfully be feared but certainly not the picayune creation Phat markets. How is the God I market any different than the one you market? My God also expects us to feed, clothe, and encourage. And he is not religious.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2711 by jar, posted 03-22-2021 4:28 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2718 by jar, posted 03-25-2021 7:42 AM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18295 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2719 of 3207 (885152)
03-25-2021 1:20 PM
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Reply to: Message 2718 by jar
03-25-2021 7:42 AM
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Re: GOD vs God vs god
When you tell AZPaul3 that he will only "burn" if he fails to do as Jesus suggested commanded, you are essentially speaking on behalf of God as you understand Him. I realize that you can support such a God based on scripture, but I sometimes get the idea that your idea of God is closer to the lovey-dovey never get angry God of Spinoza. But lets go with what you say for a moment. We all create the "Gods" we market. If so, why isn't GOD communicating with we humans? Are you seriously suggesting that it is up to us to interpret what He wants us to do with our lives? Are you seriously suggesting that He is incapable of giving you encouragement or teaching you anything? Are you seriously suggesting that GOD is too busy to worry and fret over humans on a dust-speck in the midst of His magnificent universe?
jar writes: Do you claim that the God you market is the one true God? I DO believe that there is only One God. I DO believe that God is quite capable of personal Communion and relationship with humans. I can support such ideas with scripture.
jar writes: Any and Every God humans describe is simply the product of a human imagination. So you don't believe that GOD could commune/communicate with us. Got it.And yet you speak for Her. You tell AZPaul that he is not in trouble unless he wants to be. You tell him indirectly that he can attack the whole concept of belief and that GOD would be perfectly fine with it. I would say that humans may or may not be perfectly fine with it. And I would say that the God I "market" wants AZPaul3 to think a bit deeper about his impact on humanity through what he teaches. (Not that I am exempt from this same charge) And the same goes for you, jar. We all know that the God you market does not care whether we believe in Her, can be safely "thrown away" (ignored) and that we are only responsible for how we treat each other. I believe only in that last point.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2718 by jar, posted 03-25-2021 7:42 AM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2720 by jar, posted 03-25-2021 2:41 PM | | Phat has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18295 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2745 of 3207 (885392)
04-10-2021 3:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 2744 by Raphael
04-09-2021 7:08 PM
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Re: You The Man
Evidently Percy does not have any way to scientifically justify God as part of the "real world". The peanuts will argue that none of us do. So Raphael, what do you think of the supernatural claims in Christianity. They argue that its all Biblical and that it occurs today. Has it ever occurred within any of the 7th day adventist groups in your circle?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2744 by Raphael, posted 04-09-2021 7:08 PM | | Raphael has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18295 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2748 of 3207 (885721)
04-24-2021 12:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 2747 by AZPaul3
04-22-2021 2:12 AM
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Re: I have ice cream for you.
A problem I see is that most of humanity can be insensitive to *others*, the out groups. All humanity cares greatly for family, community and brethren. Out groups, not so much. This is a problem in some ways, but I can see why we do it. If one group of people were free from COVID 19 and another group of people had the virus, the ones having the virus would be defined at that moment as the OUT Group. You don't want your IN Group (and especially the children) to get infected with cultural BS. All inclusiveness is a liberals wet dream. Not that God doesn't support it. But there are conditions.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2747 by AZPaul3, posted 04-22-2021 2:12 AM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18295 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2751 of 3207 (885724)
04-24-2021 3:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 2750 by AZPaul3
04-24-2021 2:54 PM
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Re: I have ice cream for you.
i dont understand your reasoning. But then, you dont believe mine. so we are at an impasse. Inclusiveness is akin to anarchy in my world. What is it in yours? If the universe were only humans plus a myriad of other strange life forms, how would it be any safer than being in communion?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2750 by AZPaul3, posted 04-24-2021 2:54 PM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18295 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2771 of 3207 (894634)
05-24-2022 3:24 PM
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Reply to: Message 2770 by Percy
05-24-2022 1:39 PM
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God and Santa
Neither of your two extremes describes the God I believe in. Of course we approach the definition in two different ways. You seem to think that humans invented God and His attributes. Lets take God vs Santa Claus. It is obvious that humans invented and defined Santa nd his attribute. There was a lot of "wink wink nudging" going on between parents trying to entertain their children. As for God within traditional Christianity, there has also been little consensus but the real God is to be found in a loyal and honest adult believer. A Grandma who talks with God every day. Is she delusional? Were she in the middle of a catastrophe would she panic or would she trust the One whom she has prayed to and communicated with for fifty years? Any skeptic would be beside themselves trying to drum up such an instant connection. They would bargain with, plead with, and need an answer...but only those who have been loyal and consistent for years would find the answer. Of course, there would also be those who saw the universe as indifferent. They likely believe that reality is what it is and need not include a God.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2770 by Percy, posted 05-24-2022 1:39 PM | | Percy has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 2776 by jar, posted 05-25-2022 12:38 PM | | Phat has replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18295 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 2772 of 3207 (894635)
05-24-2022 3:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 2769 by ringo
05-24-2022 11:57 AM
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How So?
How are you smarter than Dredge? What edge do you have?
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 2769 by ringo, posted 05-24-2022 11:57 AM | | ringo has replied |
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