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Author | Topic: The Great Depression No One Talks About | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Just an anecdote:
... the possibility of a Great Depression...During the actual Great Depression, there were two years in a row when my father's family had ZERO cash income. They ate what they could grow in their garden - but there was no rain. They had eggs and milk - but they had to feed the animals. Ironically, the wheat farmers had to buy flour - but how could they with no money? They had a house but I don't know what they did for fuel - we don't have trees to burn on the prairies. They had horses for transportation - but they had to feed them. No new clothes for two years. No entertainment except the homemade kind. And many were worse off than they were. So it grinds my gears a bit when you talk about a "Great Depression" today. The social(ist) programs that were brought in to alleviate the Great Depression. Push for more socialism."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hyroglyphx writes:
You don't seem to know what I think.
If socialism worked the way people like Ringo thinks it works, it would be flat out communism. Hyroglyphx writes:
Cuba is an example of a country that the US literally tried to overthrow because of an insane hatred for socialism. A more cooperative approach might well have resulted in a more benign version of socialism. History doesn't have a single example of anything besides that repressive system. And by the way, the Castro government was significantly better than the (literally) gangster-ridden dictatorship that it replaced."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
First of all, the definition you're arguing with is not mine. My idea of socialism is, From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. This is where ringo and I argue. YOUR needs - healthcare, etc. - would be met, at no direct expense to you.
Phat writes:
As I have told you before, I have NO surplus.
All I am trying to do is save my modest surplus, (roughly $500.00 a month)... Phat writes:
That's more than my pensions.
... and supplement my modest expected social security, estimated at around $1200.00 a month. Phat writes:
You're missing empathy. And you're sounding a bit racist (or is it white guys who are likely to take your job?) Does that make sense or am I missing a key analytic in this global economy? And you're supporting the fascist Republicans, which should be a clue."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hyroglyphx writes:
It was American stupidity that hardened Castro's line and forced him into the Soviet camp. But of course you couldn't risk the possibility of actual socialism working on your doorstep.
ringo writes:
Communism, please stop trying to soften it. Cuba is an example of a country that the US literally tried to overthrow because of an insane hatred for socialism. Hyroglyphx writes:
Sure, if you only listen to one side of the story, you're likely to get a one-sided story.
I grew up in Miami around thousands of Cubans who all shared the same sentiments and personal stories about the horrors of the Castro regime. Hyroglyphx writes:
I know people who fled from Chile after the Americans helped Pinochet overthrow Allende. I know people who fled El Salvador's American-backed death squads.
Interesting how it isn't the other way around, well, EVER. Hyroglyphx writes:
Back to my original point, which you kinda sorta halfway agreed with, the merits of a system can not be judged by how hard somebody tried to destroy the system.
What fucking planet do you live on that even in 2020 you would have the balls to try and defend an indisputable failure? Hyroglyphx writes:
I didn't say a word about Marxism - which supports the conclusion that you don't know what I think. Marxism is a sham."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hyroglyphx writes:
You might have given Castro the aid he needed to clean up the mess that Batista and your gangsters left instead of a knee-jerk over-reaction of blind hatred.
How might that have happened? Hyroglyphx writes:
Chile was not a war zone.
Wow, people fleeing war zones... Hyroglyphx writes:
In the Trump years we've had refugees crossing into Canada in the dead of winter, losing fingers and toes, to flee the US in search of a better life in Canada.
I'm talking about Americans getting on rafts to flee the US in search of a better way of life in Cuba. Hyroglyphx writes:
See above. And we've had other waves of refugees from the US.
How often does that happen because of the awful, repressive American hegemony? Hroglyphx writes:
Should be self-explanatory. Invest billions of dollars for decades to try to bring down the American economy and see what happens. Then claim it failed because it was unworkable from the start.
ringo writes:
Expound, please. ... the merits of a system can not be judged by how hard somebody tried to destroy the system. Hyroglyphx writes:
For an unthinking right-wing fanatic, maybe not. ringo writes:
You didn't have to.... It doesn't take a meteorologist to know which direction the wind is blowing from. I didn't say a word about Marxism I have mentioned before that Phat is more of a Marxist than I am. He's the one who talks about class struggle. I am no follower of Marx."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Billions of dollars were spent over seventy years to make it not work. I could prevent you from working with a ten-dollar crowbar to the kneecaps.
It sure didnt work in the Soviet Union. Phat writes:
I'm not talking about dreams. I'm talking about history.
Don't you see why this is a threat to the ubiquitous American Dream? Phat writes:
You're stuck between the right wing (Silly Party) and the extreme right wing (Very Silly Party). You need to get out of the nest. See the extremes I am stuck between?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hyroglyphx writes:
Batista was out for himself and out for the American gangsters. Castro was out for the people.
Batista was a dictator who was supplanted by a dictator. Hyroglyohx writes:
You're pretending that people only flee from socialism and I'm pointing out that you're factually wrong.
What does any of it have to do with what I said, that you see Cubans coming to America not the other way around? Hyroglyphx writes:
No, like the refugees crossing into Canada in the dead of winter, losing fingers and toes, to flee the US in search of a better life in Canada. Thousands of them. Don't trivialize them.
Yeah, like all the celebrities who vowed to move to Canada after Trump won the election but never went anywhere. Hyroglyphx writes:
It shows that people flee FROM the US as well as to it.
Not sure what that has to do with Cuba... Hyroglyphx writes:
Everybody contributes. Phat doesn't want his hard earned money going to people who contributed nothing to the pot."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Nonsense.
Yeah but the Left Wing is dominated by atheists, witches, all sorts of Trans Sexual paganism, Greta, and assorted humanist tree huggers. Phat writes:
The only "other" spirit here is your hateful spirit. I don't trust human nature nor do I trust the "other" spirit. (Trans Sexual paganism? What the hell is wrong with you?)"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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dwise1 writes:
I had to look that one up. It's hard to keep up with the craziess lately. Qanon"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Hyroglyphyx writes:
He gave the people a universal healthcare system. Batista didn't.
Yeah, just a selfless man of the people. Hyroglyphx writes:
You can't draw a general conclusion from one specific case. Which is why I gave you other examples that show your conclusion is wrong.
We were specifically talking about Cuba in relation to America. Hyroglyphx writes:
And people flee America to live in Canada. That tells me that YOU are the one who is desperately trying to avoid reality.
Americans don't go live in Cuba, Cubans go live in America. What does that tell you about the reality of the situation versus the one you desperately want to believe? Hyroglyphx writes:
Sure. Canada and Cuba have always been friendly. We have a pretty good healthcare system too.
Are you comparing Canada with Cuba??? Hyroglyphx writes:
Canadian REFUGEES don't FLEE to America.
And Canadians move to America too, what's your point? Hyroglyphx writes:
If you can convince the United Empire Loyalists and the escaped slaves and the war resistors to come back to America, we'll take Seth Rogan. Take Seth Rogan back, we don't want him (And the majority of Canadians in the US will probably tell you they would rather live in Canada.)"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
*ahem* Slaves. *ahem*
People fled America largely due to ideological (political reasons). Phat writes:
So you'd rather see poor people starving.
The people that talked to Hyroglyphix about the horrors of Cuba were likely small business owners that had just had their livelihood snatched from them to be distributed among the poor impoverished masses. I would have been mad too! Phat writes:
Out Conservatives are more liberal than your Democrats. And you said yourself that our system is more efficient than yours. The Democratic agenda is too liberal...."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Then you should be lobbying to have their wages raised.
... I dont want to be making the same wage as they do. Phat writes:
You Christians seem to be intent on making other people suffer.
We Christians will suffer, however. Phat writes:
If that's the worst complaint you have about socialism, then you're completely out to lunch. Competition between gods has caused more suffering than almost anything else. Get rid of all of them and everybody will be better off. Remember when people thought separation of church and state was a good idea? Socialism wont be the best system primarily because it is godless."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
You fear socialism because you don't know the first damn thing about it. i fear socialism because..."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
You? The guy who comes up with the same empty assertions day after day. week after week, year after year?
I learn quickly.... Phat writes:
And what I have answered every time, Mr. Learns Quickly, is that if you lift up the poor, you won't be going down to meet them, they'll be coming up to meet you. What I have told you time and time again that I fear is for the middle class to be forced to join with the poor impoverished masses that you so want to liftup."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Money circulates. The more money the poor have, the more they spend, the more is collected in taxes, the more money the merchants have, the more they spend, the more is collected in taxes.....
Where will the money come from to help the poor? Phat writes:
That's why I don't believe in taxing the rich. Once they have the money, it's too hard to get it back. We have to prevent them from getting rich.
It wont come from the rich. They will make sure of that. Phat writes:
You're not arguing. You're asserting. You claim that the poor will come up to meet me, but I am arguing that the money I now am scarely able to save for my retirement will get taken from me through higher taxes ... But if the poor are making more money and paying more taxes, why would YOU be paying more taxes? Why wouldn't you be paying LESS taxes?
Phat writes:
What's so bad about that?
You dont mention that the poor and myself will then be in the same class. Phat writes:
You don't have a point. They may well have come up a couple of notches, but I will have dropped a notch or two. See my point?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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