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Author Topic:   Free will vs Omniscience
Phat
Member
Posts: 14587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 1321 of 1325 (881895)
09-03-2020 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1319 by Tangle
09-03-2020 12:11 PM


Re: Returning to The Topic
Some things take time. And I never learned it from you...you don't even believe that God exists so how could you have taught me? O Tangled one, perhaps we should go fishing.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1319 by Tangle, posted 09-03-2020 12:11 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1324 by ringo, posted 09-03-2020 12:45 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 1325 by Tangle, posted 09-03-2020 1:54 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18753
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1322 of 1325 (881896)
09-03-2020 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1309 by Phat
09-02-2020 6:35 PM


Re: God does not simply know everyone.
Phat writes:

...when a person gets saved...


I have asked you before, how can you be "saved" from something that hasn't happened yet? And what sense does it make to be "saved" BY the entity that you're being saved FROM? There's no logic to it.

Phat writes:

Ringo would claim that they likely would sit around braying Lord, Lord....but that implies that churches are full of posers trying simply to fit in and look spiritual to each other.


Not all posers. A lot of them are delusional.

Phat writes:

I argue, however, that it takes that inner awareness of the reality of His existence to even give me the desire to share this stuff with other....


That's not an argument, yada yada yada.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1309 by Phat, posted 09-02-2020 6:35 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18753
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1323 of 1325 (881897)
09-03-2020 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1313 by Phat
09-02-2020 8:25 PM


Re: God does not simply know everyone.
Phat writes:

...ive likely done more of that stuff than you have.


As Jesus pointed out to the disciples, the lady who gave two mites gave more than the rich men who gave bags of gold - because she gave all she had.

Phat writes:

Ringo claims I dont do what Jesus says to do, but I fail to see where I fall short...perhaps you know.


See above. Jesus told the rich young ruler to "sell what you have and give to the poor" - not "sell a lot and give to the poor". It isn't how much you do that counts. It's how much you could do and don't.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1313 by Phat, posted 09-02-2020 8:25 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18753
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 1324 of 1325 (881898)
09-03-2020 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1321 by Phat
09-03-2020 12:24 PM


Re: Returning to The Topic
Phat writes:

...you don't even believe that God exists so how could you have taught me?


Apparently it takes years and years of repetition to get through to you, so here goes, again: You can learn something from Frodo even if you don't believe The Lord of the Rings is true.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1321 by Phat, posted 09-03-2020 12:24 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7911
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 1325 of 1325 (881904)
09-03-2020 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1321 by Phat
09-03-2020 12:24 PM


Re: Returning to The Topic
Phat writes:

Some things take time.

Only if you fight your mind. This is very, very simple stuff, but you have to switch off that bit of your mind that can't let you think.

And I never learned it from you

You didn't learn it from anyone Phat, it's been pointed out to you hundreds of times.

...you don't even believe that God exists so how could you have taught me?

You see, you still haven't got it. It's logic, not belief.

Phat writes:

Thus, if God theoretically knew what I would choose He would also know on a day by day basis what I am choosing (day by day) and if I ended up damned it really would be His fault for not speaking to me in the still small voice which I believe He does have.

That isn't hard is it? The next step is to see that if god is all knowing and knows what you'll do before you were born and also knows that you'll murder someone but still sends you to hell for all eternity, then he's evil. At the very least, he doesn't love you.

O Tangled one, perhaps we should go fishing.

Anytime. Always.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1321 by Phat, posted 09-03-2020 12:24 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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