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Author Topic:   Miracle Of The Sun & Other Musings
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 106 of 327 (881850)
09-02-2020 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Trump won
09-02-2020 6:05 AM


Actually, science did check out the Shroud of Turin but even if it was not a fraud it would not be evidence that Jesus even existed or evidence of a miracle.
Learn the basics. See if you can find where you left your brain.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Trump won, posted 09-02-2020 6:05 AM Trump won has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 755 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 107 of 327 (881863)
09-02-2020 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Trump won
09-02-2020 6:05 AM


Hey, PRC: I have a piece of the True Cross out in my shed. I’ll sell it to you - today only - for $2500.00, no sales tax. PM me quick, before it sells to someone else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Trump won, posted 09-02-2020 6:05 AM Trump won has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18298
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 108 of 327 (881882)
09-03-2020 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 104 by Trump won
09-02-2020 6:05 AM


PRC and jar
PRC,addressing jar writes:
Learn who Christ is. He is God. That is basic.
It is basic and yet so powerful. But you have to understand what happened to jar.
Way back in 2006 jar posted a Belief Statement:jar when our beloved Queen Asgara was alive and overseeing the Columnists Corner. As aa young child, he basically had the intuitive Theology of the mainstream Christians (which includes Protestant, Roman Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox by the way) when he first encountered an Episcopal Priest named Joe Wood.
Jars Belief Statement writes:
Joe Wood was the main Church influence in those years. He was the priest there, holding services on Sundays in a big old granite church that sat on the corner. The alley behind the church held a car repair shop called Gasoline Alley, and a man who had a zoo in his back yard with cages of monkeys, birds and real alligators and after services we could run down the alley and look over the fence at the wondrous things, cars disassembled and flashes of color as the birds flew about in their big cages, a world of sounds and sights and smells far different from the church above.
The Church itself was cool and dark when you entered, the sun through the stained glass windows played and danced across the dark wooden pews as clouds raced across the morning skies. As the pews filled the temperature rose and you reached for one of the paper fans that sat behind the red Book of Common Prayer or black Hymnal. They had a scene and verse from the bible on one side, advertisements for funeral homes or restaurant on the other. Some said "In Memory of so-and-so. Living with Jesus and in the heart of his family and friends.", and when you asked who so-and-so was your mom would tell you to hush.
As you grew older you were expected to attend classes leading to Confirmation. Joe taught all the classes, and he explained that when you were little, and baptized, your parents and god-parents had taken responsibility for your education and acts, but that now that you were growing up, it was time that YOU took responsibility for yourself.
He also said that it was something to really think about. He said you were confirming, or that you might also find that you were not sure or ready to confirm, what it really was that you believed. He said he would be happier if we didn't get confirmed because we didn't understand things than if we did get confirmed just because it was what our parents wanted.
Part of the process, in addition to classes were days when we got to sit down with Joe and just talk. He had a bucket with cokes and Nehi orange and grape soda and we'd sit side by side at a table and just talk. I remember telling him that "Jesus died for my sins and so if I believed in Him I was saved." and his laugh before he said, "Well, then I guess all this is a waste of time isn't it?"
It was then that jar got exposed to Critical Thinking, having Answers to Question, and other world religions and belief systems. Never again did he apparantly think that Jesus Christ was central to the salvation of humanity. In jars view, Jesus was marketed by a group of hucksters known as the apologists and was in no way actually as marketed. I'm not sure what the RCC teaches you, but I was taught that Jesus was and is Gods character...a mediator between the Creator of all seen and unseen and humanity. In Trinitarian terms, God was the SOURCE and ground of all, Jesus was the light that illuminated human understanding and awareness of the One God from all of the imaginations, vanities, myths, and explanations that human thinking would give us, and the Holy Spirit is that same awareness, Creativity of God, and Absolute Truth that comforts us all to this day. Perhaps out of all this there is one statement that you, I, and jar may agree with.
In summation, jars statement of Belief is this:
quote:
In the beginning GOD created the heavens and the earth.
GOD looked on what he had created and found it was Good.
Through a gift from GOD mankind was given the ability to know what is right from what is wrong.
GOD charges us to try to do Right, and to try not to do Wrong.
GOD is not cruel.
We are not condemned.
GOD chose ALL people.
We will be judged based on our own behavior.
Aside from not understanding how God could choose everyone and then judge them, splitting them into sheep and goats, I can understand his Theology.
He claims that I always geet it wrong, as does ringo...but they want to direct my thinking into critical appraisal rather than in the acceptance that I was taught and still hold to this very day. Jesus will never become unknowable to me, nor will I fall for the idea that the apologists market a false gospel.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.- Francis A. Schaeffer
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killosophy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Trump won, posted 09-02-2020 6:05 AM Trump won has not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1261 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 109 of 327 (881933)
09-06-2020 12:28 AM


christ relates to us through human language of suffering
the reason why we suffer is to mirror jesus christ who understood what it meant to be human through suffering as we do. god is forever linked to mankind through the mutual endurance of suffering.
the suffering man does not suffer in vain but in his suffering he communes and mirrors the suffering of Christ who is God. in perhaps the most common human experience we suffer as christ suffered and through suffering we become closer to god, a distant thing in islam, an indifferent thing in judaism, and a nonexistent thing in atheism. the divine revelation of God is Jesus Christ who is understood through suffering. it wasn't enough that God should reveal His existence but that he should reveal his Genius, who is Jesus Christ, in whom we find Compassion and life itself. It wasn't enough for God to be known. He had to be known as He Is which Is in His Son Jesus Christ, the eternal intercessory of our Suffering and the one who cares enough to know what it is to be human, to suffer and die.

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by jar, posted 09-06-2020 7:22 AM Trump won has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 110 of 327 (881936)
09-06-2020 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Trump won
09-06-2020 12:28 AM


Re: christ relates to us through human language of suffering
You keep trying to market a disgusting pathetic picayune psycopath of a god that is totally unworthy of any respect.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Trump won, posted 09-06-2020 12:28 AM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Trump won, posted 09-06-2020 9:36 AM jar has replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1261 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 111 of 327 (881937)
09-06-2020 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by jar
09-06-2020 7:22 AM


Re: christ relates to us through human language of suffering
We preach Christ crucified not jar Lala land
Its disgusting that you refer to our lord as a psychopath. May he be merciful

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by jar, posted 09-06-2020 7:22 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by jar, posted 09-06-2020 10:05 AM Trump won has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 112 of 327 (881939)
09-06-2020 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Trump won
09-06-2020 9:36 AM


Re: christ relates to us through human language of suffering
Come on, if you are gonna quote quote it all. The lord you market is a disgusting pathetic picayune psycopath of a god that is totally unworthy of any respect.
AbE:
And yes, marketing Christ Crucified simply demeans and denigrates Jesus and makes his whole message totally worthless.
It is disgusting that you pervert Jesus to such an extent.
Edited by jar, : see AbE

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Trump won, posted 09-06-2020 9:36 AM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Trump won, posted 09-06-2020 3:13 PM jar has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 113 of 327 (881942)
09-06-2020 1:24 PM


Hmm.... The Mennonite church that my mother grew up in used to have the words, "We preach Christ crucified," emblazoned on the wall above the choir. It always seemed like an odd slogan to me. I would have preferred something like, "Hallelujah!"
At some point, they changed it to, "We preach Christ." I wonder why?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by dwise1, posted 09-06-2020 1:42 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5947
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 114 of 327 (881943)
09-06-2020 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by ringo
09-06-2020 1:24 PM


When I read the New Testament all the way through (twice), I was struck by the stark difference between the two halves.
I actually liked a number of Jesus' teachings, but those could only be found in the Gospels. Then once Paul and the others got a hold of it, it changed from "the religion of Jesus" to "the religion about the Christ". And it was when they turned their back on Jesus and replaced him with the Christ that it all turned weird.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by ringo, posted 09-06-2020 1:24 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 115 of 327 (881944)
09-06-2020 1:46 PM


Primitive Catholics like 'WhoeverI'mCallingMyselfToday" have always been really into the sadism of their belief. They wallow in the blood sacrifice and torture. All their churches have images of Christ being tortured to death on their walls.
In the Stations of the Cross, you're supposed to kneel down under 14 of these images and imagine his suffering. Not that there's much to imagine, you have the gory image in front of you and you've been drilled in the intricate details of the process of crucifixion stage by stage. It's X-rated stuff taught to terrified children. Nothing short of child abuse. It's literally medieval.
To complete the insanity you get a plenary indulgence for doing this. This means that if you get hit by a bus when leaving the church you go straight to heaven, do not pass go, do not spend any time in purgatory.
You couldn't make this shit up could you?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

Replies to this message:
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vimesey
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 116 of 327 (881945)
09-06-2020 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Tangle
09-06-2020 1:46 PM


Add to all of that, that the Catholic Church is estimated to be worth between $10 and $15bn (ignoring all of the priceless works of art they've spent their rubes cash on, instead of helping the poor and infirm...)
Lovely people ;-)

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Trump won, posted 09-06-2020 3:06 PM vimesey has replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1261 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 117 of 327 (881947)
09-06-2020 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by vimesey
09-06-2020 2:53 PM


the catholic church, oh you mean the #1 most charitble organization in the world?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by vimesey, posted 09-06-2020 2:53 PM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by vimesey, posted 09-06-2020 3:31 PM Trump won has replied
 Message 133 by ringo, posted 09-06-2020 8:22 PM Trump won has replied
 Message 137 by Phat, posted 09-07-2020 9:51 AM Trump won has not replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1261 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 118 of 327 (881948)
09-06-2020 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by jar
09-06-2020 10:05 AM


Re: christ relates to us through human language of suffering
on the contrary, it is through the crucified Christ that man understands God and limns the limits of his existence.
it is through the suffering Christ that man finds his dignity, especially our brothers and sisters who only know suffering.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by jar, posted 09-06-2020 10:05 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by jar, posted 09-06-2020 4:26 PM Trump won has replied

  
vimesey
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 119 of 327 (881949)
09-06-2020 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Trump won
09-06-2020 3:06 PM


Ooh, going for the moral high ground again, having gone to such lengths to hide and protect your paedophile priests ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Trump won, posted 09-06-2020 3:06 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Trump won, posted 09-06-2020 3:33 PM vimesey has replied

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1261 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 120 of 327 (881950)
09-06-2020 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by vimesey
09-06-2020 3:31 PM


obviously you have an axe to grind, but i have not made the slightest inclination to do what you accuse me of
personally i think pedophile priests should be defrocked immediately and adjudicated.
Edited by Christ crucified?, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by vimesey, posted 09-06-2020 3:31 PM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Tangle, posted 09-06-2020 3:52 PM Trump won has not replied
 Message 122 by vimesey, posted 09-06-2020 3:58 PM Trump won has replied

  
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