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Author | Topic: Miracle Of The Sun & Other Musings | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8557 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Never seen anything like this mercy out of any of the Abrahamic traditions.
What's that called? Bait and switch marketing? Can be effective. But at this level, that's just fuckin evil ... again. Do you guys do anything but evil? Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Factio Republicana delenda est.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
CC writes: Truly, God’s mercy is forever; it never ends, it never runs out, it never gives up when faced with closed doors, and it never tires. In this forever we find strength in moments of trial and weakness because we are sure that God does not abandon us. He remains with us forever. Pope Francis Meanwhile, back in reality here on earth, Pope Francis is systematically hiding $2bn of assets across the USA in an attempt to restrict the amount of damages it has to pay to it's thousands of child rape victims. Lawyers and accountants are creating trusts, locking assets, marking-down down values (Often to zero) and moving accounts and finaces out of diocese. All very corporate America - institutional fraud following abuse.
quote: Detailed Bloomberg article Bloomberg - Are you a robot?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Seriously? You have to ask that question? So let me get this straight. Only those who claim to believe in Jesus are supposed to give it all up? The rich young ruler asked, "What must I do to be saved?" Jesus answered, "Sell what you have and give to the poor." If I don't believe I need to be saved, how the @#$%ing hell does that apply to me? If I don't believe Jesus ever existed, why the @#$%ing hell would I do what He supposedly said? And if YOU believe He was real, why the @#$%ing hell don't YOU do what He said?
Phat writes:
No, the Roman church did not know Jesus before He was crucified. Even Paul, who started the Roman church, did not know Jesus before He was crucified. They had the same source that you have, the supposed words of Jesus that were later recorded in the gospels.
The early believers appeared to be 100% all in. They knew the power of the Risen Christ as well as knowing Him personally before He was crucified. Phat writes:
How is that an excuse for you to keep watering it down?
Christianity was already becoming watered down... Phat writes:
It wasn't "advice". It was what he MUST do to be saved. And as to the edict that you often push to sell all that one has, might I remind you that it was a rich young ruler who was advised to do such a thing. And as I have told you before, it isn't about how much you give. It's about how much you hold back. The lady who gave two mites held back nothing. The widow who fed Elijah held back nothing. Ananias and Sapphira held back and they were killed for it.
Phat writes:
That's obviously false. The Roman church. Nowhere is the implication that anyone of modest means should give up all they have and become poor simply to appease Jesus. Edited by ringo, : Added last quote."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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ringo writes: No, the Roman church did not know Jesus before He was crucified. Even Paul, who started the Roman church, did not know Jesus before He was crucified. They had the same source that you have, the supposed words of Jesus that were later recorded in the gospels. Sorta kinda not exactly. Peter likely knew Jesus directly and Peter was the head of the Church in Rome. Paul though had far more influence in creating "Christianity" and Paul never knew or met or even knew much about Jesus.
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ringo Member (Idle past 439 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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jar writes:
I stand corrected. Peter likely knew Jesus directly and Peter was the head of the Church in Rome."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
This argument was never really investigated by me until now, and it basically brings up some larger arguments on the origins, validities, and overarching purpose of Christianity and whether the only real "Clubs" are the Catholic ones.
My search started at Catholic Answers. Was Peter In Rome? The tract basically spells out the ideas touted by Protestants and Catholic scholars alike as they discuss the establishment of the Papacy. Some points brought up:quote: I knew about the Five Cities where early Catholic Christianity began. I fully agree wwith jar that the word "Catholic" refers to the Body of Believers on earth and not the church in Rome. As a Protestant, I embrace the idea of one universal church yet would only add that I believe that not everyone who claimed membership was in fact a member. A member, I would assert, was one who had the Holy Spirit (as *all* in the upper room in Acts certainly had.) Later wolves in sheeps(or shepherds) clothing attempted to use the papacy and position within early organized religion to further their own carnal political and material lusts on planet earth. In taking a few courses in college on European History, I also saw the great seesaw struggle between Popes vs Kings and early Monarchs within Europe. The Protestant Reformation was initially a breath of fresh air for true be;lievers, (I know I sound like Faith! ) but it too later succumbed to the all-too-human tendency to shirk ones spirtual awareness in pursuit of earthly lusts. Down through the ages, the Church Universal, as I will call us in order to differentiate Catholicism from the pagan offshoots of the Ecclesiastic Body has survived to this day just as Jesus told Peter it would. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Phat writes:
So let me get this straight. Only those who claim to believe in Jesus are supposed to give it all up?Seriously? You have to ask that question? Indeed I do. Your colorful cursing shows me all I need to know about your emotional opinion on the matter!
ringo writes: Because what you believe and what I believe are no indication of reality. If GOD is more than a human concept and if Jesus is His Son, (and not Elmer Gantry) then if you expect to charge me with listening to Jesus, you darn well better do the same thing and sell that house of yours and go live in the shelter with the spare change artists. Perhaps universal socialism will take care of all of us, including the widow minus two mites.
The rich young ruler asked, "What must I do to be saved?" Jesus answered, "Sell what you have and give to the poor." If I don't believe I need to be saved, how the @#$%ing hell does that apply to me? If I don't believe Jesus ever existed, why the @#$%ing hell would I do what He supposedly said? And if YOU believe He was real, why the @#$%ing hell don't YOU do what He said? Phat writes:
The early believers appeared to be 100% all in. They knew the power of the Risen Christ as well as knowing Him personally before He was crucified.ringo writes: By "early church" I meant the believers in Acts, the ones who gave all they had and laid it at the Apostles feet. Many of them had seen Jesus while He was alive in the flesh and most all of them certainly knew Peter. The scene could have been Jerusalem just as easily as it could have been Rome.
No, the Roman church did not know Jesus before He was crucified. Even Paul, who started the Roman church, did not know Jesus before He was crucified. They had the same source that you have, the supposed words of Jesus that were later recorded in the gospels. Phat writes:
Christianity was already becoming watered down...ringo writes: And how am I watering it down? By daring to keep my house for my shelter in life? Or by questioning Leftist politics?
How is that an excuse for you to keep watering it down? Phat writes:
And as to the edict that you often push to sell all that one has, might I remind you that it was a rich young ruler who was advised to do such a thing.ringo writes: How convenient it must be to hold the Christianss accountable to the message that they believe in while exempting yourself from that same message. If I give it all up *YOU* give it all up, Pal. The difference is, the socialists will make it a mandatory law. Jesus did not have the rich young ruler arrested for refusing to listen to Him.
It wasn't "advice". It was what he MUST do to be saved. And as I have told you before, it isn't about how much you give. It's about how much you hold back. The lady who gave two mites held back nothing. The widow who fed Elijah held back nothing. Ananias and Sapphira held back and they were killed for it. Phat writes:
Nowhere is the implication that anyone of modest means should give up all they have and become poor simply to appease Jesus.That's obviously false. The Roman church. jar corrected both of us. Note my post above. And note one thing about Peter mentioned in Catholic Answers:
quote:Peter was not simply some Bozo with a bullhorn trying to get money from the crowd. He had the Spirit. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Phat Member Posts: 18343 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Tangle writes: It makes no sense for the victim to be awarded the church building when the church building belongs to everyone in the church. Just as it would make no sense to award the social security trust funds to victims of early American oppression. Meanwhile, back in reality here on earth, Pope Francis is systematically hiding $2bn of assets across the USA in an attempt to restrict the amount of damages it has to pay to it's thousands of child rape victims. Lawyers and accountants are creating trusts, locking assets, marking-down down values (Often to zero) and moving accounts and finaces out of diocese. All very corporate America - institutional fraud following abuse."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killosophy
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Phat writes: It makes no sense for the victim to be awarded the church building when the church building belongs to everyone in the church. The reason that the accountants and lawyers are able to do these things is exactly because they are not owned by 'everyone in the church' - even though 'everyone in the church' who actually paid for it thought that they did. Do you know who or what owns your church? Actually owns it? Has the power to sell it? Mortgage it?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Actually in many instances it is quite clear who owns a church and who has the right to sell it. For example my church and the property is owned by the Diocese and the Bishop of the Diocese can sell it.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Jar writes: Actually in many instances it is quite clear who owns a church and who has the right to sell it. For example my church and the property is owned by the Diocese and the Bishop of the Diocese can sell it. And once sold, where does the money go?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Back into the Diocese coffers.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9510 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
jar writes: Back into the Diocese coffers. I think you might be being a tad naive, but I know nothing of your church and financial structure.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Actually the finances are pretty much open and clear. The Diocese owns church property including any structures on the property. Most of the established Christian Sects do have pretty good financial controls and in fact the point you are making about the Roman Catholic Church hiding assets is a good example to support such control. In the major sects it is far harder to transfer monies into individuals pockets.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8557 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Since in most cases a church doesn't sell its buildings without properties more appropriate to its future in mind I would guess the funds from the sales would go pretty much directly into escrow on the new properties.
As I understand, most of the national and international cults like the RCC and its protestant hangers-on have rather restrictive cannons on the purchase and sale of properties. If it's not into a specific building fund set up for that purpose, the cash flow is usually into the operating accounts of the archdiocese. Factio Republicana delenda est.
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