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Author | Topic: Miracle Of The Sun & Other Musings | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Of course not!
No TRUE BELIEVER would ever look at the actual evidence. Why would anyone so enthralled (AKA "enslaved") with belief ever wish to view the facts? To ever begin to consider what had actually happened? Don't most religious positions require you to ignore what had actually happened?
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
I personally saw a miracle, you f**king c**k s**kers! NOT ONLY THAT, but an entire theatre of witnesses saw it as well! So it is an undeniable MIRACLE!
One night on a cruise to the south of Spain out of Southampton (lovely place; I would recommend it, both of them), the evening show was a magician. He had a sketch pad. On one page he sketched a bowling ball and ... MIRACLE!!!!!! ... a bowling ball suddenly dropped out of that sketch pad and down onto the stage. MIRACLE!! And not only that but ON CUE!!!!!!!. So you have some witnesses to some kind of refractive light show. And I have a auditotrium full of witnesses to a bowling ball falling out of a sketch book. Whom are you going to believe? To reiterate, I was not the only person to witness that event with my own eyes (rather that was witnessed by hundreds or far more), .
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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So you have no way to explain that "miracle" of a bowling ball falling out of a sketch pad. Instead, you resort of an ad hominem attack. Typical, so sadly typical.
The "magic" of a stage magician works for the same reason that a natural phenomenon being observed by a scientifically ignorant layman does. You cannot explain how it happened, so you assume magic. There is no difference whatsoever. Here's a quote from one of my signatures here:
quote: Another quote from Wakefield that I cannot find the source for says something like:
quote: That is why a supernatural-based "science" would actually kill science.
As an edit, I might also point out that human magicians seek to trick people. There is no indication that a Deity would have any need to do so. And yet creationists of all stripes eventually end up resorting to the Omphalos Argument (see my page at No webpage found at provided URL: http://cre-ev.dwise1.net/omphalos.html). All the serious ones (including leading creationist master debaters Duane Gish and Henry Morris) end up having to explain away why all the evidence does indeed point to evolution and an old earth. Because the "unnamed" Creator created everything with a false history that would prove an old earth if you didn't already know that it was all just a trick designed to fool you. Who's your Sky Daddy? Loki!
... to trick people. There is no indication that a Deity would have any need to do so. And yet that is exactly what creationists end up arguing for. Dude! Get with the program already! That is also known as "Last Thursdayism" which argues that the universe was created last Thursday with all the evidence for it having existed long before that, including our own obviously false personal memories, being complete fabrications that never ever happened. Of course, that is very hotly challenged by the Last Wednesdayists while the Last Tuesdayists know for a fact that both of the other parties are completely wrong. Which of those three churches do you belong to in your service of your trickster god?
Ask yourself what it is about belief in general that you find so distasteful and threatening. Unlike yourself, I have absolutely no problem with belief in general. Rather, the problem that I have is with ass wipes who want to force their own gross ignorance and arrogance on others, especially when they seek to destroy education and/or to dictate oppressive laws in the service of their own particular false interpretations of what their imaginary god wants.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
So you are essentially defining what God can do? Oh I get it...God is limited by science. Isn't that what every single creationist does? Instead of accepting the universe as the Creator created it, they dare to dictate to God what He could or could not do. How utterly arrogant! Science studies how the universe works. You want to claim that it somehow works entirely differently and arbitrarily. Good luck with that idiotic approach! Also, we have found that your geocentrism doesn't work. Within our frame of reference, the sun does not move! Why you insist on refusing to accept that very simple fact, I do not know nor could I ever understand. The sun does not move, but rather the earth does. And if the earth were to move in such a manner to make it appear that the sun stops or jitters around, then the g-forces placed on everybody on earth would be devastating reducing all of us to chunky salsa -- inertial dampeners only exist in Star Trek, or didn't you know that either? Please pull your head out of your nether orifice and learn something! Like heliocentrism, to start with!
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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The cat might be in Schrdinger's Caf on the campus of the Vienna University of Technology (Technische Universitt Wien, TU Wien) at the corner of Wiedner Hauptstrae and Schaurhofergasse on the way from Karlsplatz to Operngasse (where we stayed). The caf was always closed when we walked past so we never went in (though we did window shop their selection of Big Bang Theory, DC, and Marvel themed merchandise including science project kits). We tried to look in to spot that cat's box, but it was always too dark to see it. So the box may or may not be in the caf, but if we went in to find it then it will have been removed.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
When I read the New Testament all the way through (twice), I was struck by the stark difference between the two halves.
I actually liked a number of Jesus' teachings, but those could only be found in the Gospels. Then once Paul and the others got a hold of it, it changed from "the religion of Jesus" to "the religion about the Christ". And it was when they turned their back on Jesus and replaced him with the Christ that it all turned weird.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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A couple decades ago I served on our church's board as we were merging two congregations to form a new one with new by-laws, etc.
Our minister strongly suggested that we include in the new by-laws a provision that excluded new members from voting in a congregational meeting; ie, only members who had been with the church for at least several months be allowed to vote. He described a scam in which, just before a congregational meeting, a church is suddenly flooded with a large number of new members who then vote to sell the church property to one particular buyer. Without by-laws to prevent that from happening, a church could not defend one of its most valuable assets.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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You claim to have experienced many of the same (or similar) unexplained events that I have, and you too easily rejected them...as does AZ Paul3, simply because you already conclude that they simply cant happen. No, they are doing your job for you! quote: Instead of grasping any little thing that you do not immediately understand and proclaiming it to be supernatural and hence proof of or evidence for your beliefs in the supernatural, you need to be testing and vetting each and every one to the fullest extent. You are not the only one who pays the price for not doing your duty (people dismiss you as a religious nut), but your religion and gods also pay the price of being dismissed as nonsense. As Saint Augustine is quoted from "De Genese ad litteram" (fourth century -- follow link for more complete text):
quote: I have myself seen or heard of many such "inexplicable-ergo-supernatural" things; eg:
The main reason why our immediate response is to question and to look for a natural explanation is because so far every single phenomenon observed has proven to have a natural explanation. It is your duty to test every event that you think could be supernatural. The damage you do by shirking that duty is not only to yourself. Edited by dwise1, : added link for infrasound
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