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Author Topic:   Parables 101
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 218 of 229 (882138)
09-12-2020 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by Phat
09-12-2020 1:25 PM


Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
Phat writes:
Sounds as if you too are playing apologist and rationalizing what Jesus must have meant. At the very least you are dancing.
Not at all. I'm pointing out that if YOUR interpretation of Zacchaeus is valid, then Jesus contradicted Himself. If Jesus DIDN'T contradict Himself, your interpretation of Zacchaeus must be invalid.
Phat writes:
Speaking of apologists, here is what one respectable guy said: blah blah blah...
Your apologist doesn't explain why the early church believed that Jesus meant what He said.
Your apologist also lies through his teeth: "Even if the rich young ruler would have given away his riches and followed Christ, he wouldn’t have earned his salvation." That's EXACTLY what Jesus said WOULD happen.
Phat writes:
The only reason you feel that it does is because it is what you believe anyway...imagining what a great world it could be if everyone did so.
Stop lying. I have told you many times that I don't believe in any "great world".

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Phat, posted 09-12-2020 1:25 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Phat, posted 09-13-2020 10:30 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 224 of 229 (882150)
09-13-2020 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Phat
09-13-2020 10:30 AM


Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
I have told you many times that I don't believe in any "great world".
Nor do I. But I DO believe in a Great God.
Why do you always do that Gish Gallop? That has NOTHING to do with what we were talking about. Go back and answer the post you quoted. Respond to the bold-faced lie that your apologist told.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Phat, posted 09-13-2020 10:30 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Phat, posted 09-15-2020 6:27 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 225 of 229 (882152)
09-13-2020 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Phat
09-13-2020 2:49 PM


Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
That's not the way the writer of Acts told it. He said they were punished for "A AND B". He did not say "A but not B".
Your argument is like saying murder is okay but don't you dare LIE about it. That would be REALLY bad.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Phat, posted 09-13-2020 2:49 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 229 of 229 (882209)
09-15-2020 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 227 by Phat
09-15-2020 6:27 AM


Re: Parables 101 in differing contexts
Phat writes:
The apologist was being a bit vague, but was not lying.
Nothing vague about it. It was a flat-out bold-faced lie:
Rich young ruler: "Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?"
Jesus: "One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me."
Apologist: "Even if the rich young ruler would have given away his riches and followed Christ, he wouldn’t have earned his salvation."
He contradicted Jesus directly and completely. There's no getting around that.
Phat writes:
It is not simply the action of giving all that you have away to the poor that determines your salvation.
Jesus said it is.
Phat writes:
It is following Jesus.
That IS following Jesus. Literally. It is what He did.
Phat writes:
Note how the rich young ruler never offered to follow Jesus to begin with.
He asked what he had to do to go to heaven.
Phat writes:
What do you think would have happened had Jesus simply said to him, "There is one thing you need to do. Follow me."
He would have understood what Jesus meant. He would not have expected to "follow" Jesus on his chauffeur-driven camel with his retinue of servants.
Phat writes:
Did Jesus command Mary & Martha to sell everything they had?
Jesus was not a one-trick pony. He didn't repeat one thing ad nauseam.
Phat writes:
How about the Roman Centurion? How about Zaccheus?
How about the early church? Why did they do what Jesus said if it was "clear" that He didn't mean it for everybody. The point of giving up everything was to put your trust in God, not in your own riches.
Phat writes:
Clearly you don't understand the contexts because you don't understand Jesus.
I have discussed the contexts in some detail. You have not. Before you can brag about your lofty levels of understanding, you need to go back and answer your myriad of unanswered posts.
Phat writes:
All that you took was the message.
The message is what matters.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 227 by Phat, posted 09-15-2020 6:27 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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