Miracle Of The Sun & Other Musings

The reason that the accountants and lawyers are able to do these things is exactly because they are not owned by 'everyone in the church' - even though 'everyone in the church' who actually paid for it thought that they did.Do you know who or what owns your church? Actually owns it? Has the power to sell it? Mortgage it?

And once sold, where does the money go?

I think you might be being a tad naive, but I know nothing of your church and financial structure.

I think we're seeing how creative religious institutions can get when there is a financial challenge to them. In the case of the RCC in the USA it's to the tune of at least $2bn so far.

Good grief!

Sure, that's why gods are invented.But the reason you and others believe in a particular god is because you were born into a culture that had that god. That's all, just an accident of birth.I know that you think this god of yours talks to you but this same god says different things to the loonytunes Catholic. And of course different gods in different cultures say different things altogether. What do you think is going on here? Does every believer have their own god? If there's only one god why is he giving different and contradictory messages?

Yeh, he loves us so much that he kills us, every one of us. He loves some people even more, those he tortures before he kills them with starvation, cancers and exotic diseases.And those that he doesn't love at all - because they were born in the wrong society or at the wrong time - he kills then condemns them to everlasting torture.Lovely guy your god. Just as well he's only a crazy masochist's fantasy.Are you going to explain to Phat why he's going to hell even though he thinks he's saved?

Given that I'm an atheist not a sadomasochist, you can give up that hope right now.So, when are you going to tell Phat that the god that loves him is going to send him to hell to be punished in everlasting fire for the sins of his fathers?

quote:

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Pope Eugene IV in the Bull Cantate Domino (1441), using the same terms as St Fulgentius, taught in an infallible definition:

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The Most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews, heretics, and schismatics can ever be partakers of eternal life, but that they are to go into the eternal fire ‘which was prepared for the devil and his angels’ (Mt 25:41) unless before death they are joined with her.

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According to Catholic doctrine, yes.Ask whatsisname, he's being a bit reluctant at the moment but as it's your immortal soul at stake, I'm sure he'll put you right.

It's amazing how many of you fruitcakes are.

And who or what caused the first cause?Sorry, the logic doesn't work, it's a paradox.

Not only do I pay attention, I also think for myself. Try it.Does what you've quoted make sense to you? Are you impressed by the linguistic gymnastics?We have something.It either existed forever (which, of course makes no normal sense) or it came into existence at some point in time.The way we are built and our everyday experience tells us that things that come into existence require a cause. The way religions deal with that is to invoke a god that didn't require a cause. That's just a convenient fiction isn't it? It denies the first premise, that things require causes. It's a false premise.Like our 'something' the same logic tells us that God - or more usually gods - have to come from somewhere or to always exist. Fiddling with words does not solve that very real paradox. Oh ffs, wake up and think you silly person. Now that, at least, is true. But it's not a philosophical problem that can be solved by manipulating language. It's actually a very simple problem to state, but it has no answer and may never have one.So how do you explain it? How can something exist - even what we call a god - without a cause? Godditit is not an answer because it leaves behind the same question - who or what created the creator?That paradox can not be solved in language because it's created by the poverty of our language. If it can be solved, it will be solved by the language of mathematics and we normals will not understand it.

Why haven't you asked your mate thingamebob whether you are going to hell yet?

That’s been explained to you many times but you're not interested because you've seen god.What I'd like you to at least consider are the experiences of other people that have seen god but have radically different experiences and even different gods. How can you explain that?

So what is it about your experience that convinces you that yours is the correct experience? How can you tell?It's not just the gods of other religions that are convincing other people that they are right and you are wrong, the god of Christians is telling different stories to its different sects and, when it comes down to it, he's actually saying different things to each individual. Often very contradictory things.He's telling wtfishisnametoday that he's going to heaven but you are not, for example. You never take him up on that but if you believe the voices, one of you is right and one of you is wrong (or, of course, you're both wrong). I'm giving you the evidence that what you think is happening is not happening the way you think it is. But I do understand that delusions are rarely if ever cured by facts and evidence. When dowsers are tested and shown that they can't detect what they claim to be able to detect, it never convinces them, they always have an excuse. As you do - other people's voices are false gods or demons, but yours is real. I, and others, have told you many, many times that we have experienced similar things. I guess you 'know' that we haven't, not like yours, because you're special.