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Author Topic:   Miracle Of The Sun & Other Musings
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 153 of 327 (881998)
09-08-2020 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Phat
09-07-2020 2:43 PM


Re: Selling All One Has
Phat writes:
So let me get this straight. Only those who claim to believe in Jesus are supposed to give it all up?
Seriously? You have to ask that question?
The rich young ruler asked, "What must I do to be saved?" Jesus answered, "Sell what you have and give to the poor."
If I don't believe I need to be saved, how the @#$%ing hell does that apply to me? If I don't believe Jesus ever existed, why the @#$%ing hell would I do what He supposedly said? And if YOU believe He was real, why the @#$%ing hell don't YOU do what He said?
Phat writes:
The early believers appeared to be 100% all in. They knew the power of the Risen Christ as well as knowing Him personally before He was crucified.
No, the Roman church did not know Jesus before He was crucified. Even Paul, who started the Roman church, did not know Jesus before He was crucified. They had the same source that you have, the supposed words of Jesus that were later recorded in the gospels.
Phat writes:
Christianity was already becoming watered down...
How is that an excuse for you to keep watering it down?
Phat writes:
And as to the edict that you often push to sell all that one has, might I remind you that it was a rich young ruler who was advised to do such a thing.
It wasn't "advice". It was what he MUST do to be saved.
And as I have told you before, it isn't about how much you give. It's about how much you hold back. The lady who gave two mites held back nothing. The widow who fed Elijah held back nothing. Ananias and Sapphira held back and they were killed for it.
Phat writes:
Nowhere is the implication that anyone of modest means should give up all they have and become poor simply to appease Jesus.
That's obviously false. The Roman church.
Edited by ringo, : Added last quote.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Phat, posted 09-07-2020 2:43 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by jar, posted 09-08-2020 12:43 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 155 of 327 (882002)
09-08-2020 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by jar
09-08-2020 12:43 PM


Re: Selling All One Has
jar writes:
Peter likely knew Jesus directly and Peter was the head of the Church in Rome.
I stand corrected.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by jar, posted 09-08-2020 12:43 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Phat, posted 09-08-2020 2:10 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 168 of 327 (882019)
09-08-2020 10:27 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by Phat
09-08-2020 2:10 PM


Re: And As For Ringo & His Logic...
Phat writes:
Your colorful cursing shows me all I need to know about your emotional opinion on the matter!
That isn't "cursing", Pollyanna. That's frustration at the sheer stupidity of your position. And you confirm once again that you don't actually read what you respond to.
Phat writes:
... if you expect to charge me with listening to Jesus, you darn well better do the same thing and sell that house of yours and go live in the shelter with the spare change artists.
So you won't do what Jesus told you to do until an unbeliever does it first? You need an unbeliever to be an example to you?
Phat writes:
Perhaps universal socialism will take care of all of us, including the widow minus two mites.
If you had ever read the Bible, you would know that it was God who promised to take care of us, like He took care of the widow who fed Elijah.
Phat writes:
And how am I watering it down? By daring to keep my house for my shelter in life?
Yes.
Phat writes:
Or by questioning Leftist politics?
You're not questioning leftist politics. If you did ask some questions, you might learn something about it.
Phat writes:
How convenient it must be to hold the Christianss accountable to the message that they believe in while exempting yourself from that same message.
But you don't believe the message. You deny and scoff at it all the time.
Phat writes:
If I give it all up *YOU* give it all up, Pal.
We've been through that, Pal. YOU live what YOU believe and I'll live what I believe.
Phat writes:
The difference is, the socialists will make it a mandatory law.
Learn something about socialism.
Phat writes:
Jesus did not have the rich young ruler arrested for refusing to listen to Him.
He sent him to Hell.
Phat writes:
jar corrected both of us.
jar reminded me that it was Peter who founded the Roman church. He did not deny that the members of the Roman church gave all they had or that Ananias and Sapphira were killed for holding back.
Phat writes:
Peter was not simply some Bozo with a bullhorn trying to get money from the crowd. He had the Spirit.
That makes it worse for you. Peter Knew Jesus and he had the spirit - and the Roman church believed it was necessary to give everything.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Phat, posted 09-08-2020 2:10 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 191 of 327 (882091)
09-10-2020 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 185 by Phat
09-10-2020 9:39 AM


Re: Ringo Thinks The Early Church In Rome Was The Church In Acts
Phat writes:
Ringo Thinks The Early Church In Rome Was The Church In Acts
It doesn't really matter whether Ananias and Sapphira were in Rome or Jerusalem or Denver. They defied Jesus and they were punished for it.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Phat, posted 09-10-2020 9:39 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 215 of 327 (882253)
09-16-2020 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Trump won
09-16-2020 12:13 AM


atheists believe there is no god yet they cannot prove that something can come from nothing.
it can't.
By that logic, God can't exist.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Trump won, posted 09-16-2020 12:13 AM Trump won has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Phat, posted 09-16-2020 1:37 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 216 of 327 (882254)
09-16-2020 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Trump won
09-16-2020 9:22 AM


the truth is that i'm near genius level. summa cum laude and everything else.
I use my Nobel Prize as a paperweight.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Trump won, posted 09-16-2020 9:22 AM Trump won has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 257 of 327 (882306)
09-17-2020 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Phat
09-16-2020 1:37 PM


Re: The Uncaused First Cause Argument
Phat writes:
Personally, I always say that it makes more sense to me that Mind came before Matter.
I can't fathom how anybody could think that makes sense.
We know that the human mind interacts directly with matter - e.g. it can be influences by drugs. A vastly more complex mind that doesn't depend on matter, such as a god's, can not be anything more than wishful thinking on your part.
Phat writes:
But your whole premise of "In The Beginning, Chemicals" is an ode to Physicalism otherwise known as Materialism.
I don't subscribe to any kind of philosophical mumbo-jumbo. I just deal with what we know objectively to exist.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Phat, posted 09-16-2020 1:37 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 258 of 327 (882307)
09-17-2020 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by Phat
09-17-2020 9:14 AM


Re: Ringo Thinks The Early Church In Rome Was The Church In Acts
Phat writes:
Even Satan is useful to God, however.
Of Course he is. He's one of God's Cabinet ministers. (See the Book of Job.)

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Phat, posted 09-17-2020 9:14 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 259 of 327 (882308)
09-17-2020 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Phat
09-17-2020 9:55 AM


Re: A Couple Of Notes
Phat writes:
Satan has a bag of tricks and the battle in the supernatural realm between good and evil is much bigger and more powerful than any rational scientifically minded person could ever guess.
On the contrary, that "battle" is tiny enough to fit in your mind, where it came from.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Phat, posted 09-17-2020 9:55 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 09-17-2020 4:57 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 265 of 327 (882315)
09-17-2020 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by Phat
09-17-2020 4:57 PM


Re: A Couple Of Notes
Phat writes:
So how do you explain that I have "seen" the supernatural? Not once but several times?
Do you read my posts at all? I have told you several times that I have had "experiences" too. The only difference is that I don't call them "supernatural". I call them "unexplained".
Neither you nor I has enough understanding of the natural to decide that something "can not" be explained. It's far more likely that WE can't explain it but somebody else can.
Phat writes:
Stage Hypnosis?
That's one possibility.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Phat, posted 09-17-2020 4:57 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 266 of 327 (882316)
09-17-2020 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by Phat
09-17-2020 6:39 PM


Re: A Couple Of Notes
Phat writes:
The only way you people here might be convinced is if you yourselves actually experience it.
One more time: I HAVE experienced "it".
Phat writes:
I suspect that even then you would search for any other explanation except that you actually experienced it.
Well OF COURSE we're going to search for a sensible explanation before we swallow your nonsensical explanation.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by Phat, posted 09-17-2020 6:39 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 280 of 327 (882331)
09-18-2020 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Phat
09-18-2020 2:45 AM


Re: Code
Phat writes:
do atheists think that we are in essence our own creator?
Of course not.
Phat writes:
How else would a physicalist explain creativity and discovery?
Evolution.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Phat, posted 09-18-2020 2:45 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Phat, posted 09-18-2020 12:33 PM ringo has replied
 Message 285 by jar, posted 09-18-2020 1:11 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 284 of 327 (882335)
09-18-2020 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by Phat
09-18-2020 12:33 PM


Re: Evidence Based Belief and Refusal to accept anything unexplained
Phat writes:
You claim to have experienced many of the same (or similar) unexplained events that I have, and you too easily rejected them...as does AZ Paul3, simply because you already conclude that they simply cant happen.
I didn't reject them. I put them in the "I don't know" file.
And I didn't conclude that they can't happen. They did happen.
I concluded that there is no reason to accept your explanation.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by Phat, posted 09-18-2020 12:33 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 297 of 327 (882432)
09-23-2020 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 295 by Phat
09-23-2020 2:57 AM


Re: How much of secular philosophy is objectively true?
Phat writes:
A scientist got into an argument with God...
The scientist said, "We have decided we no longer need you, as we can create anything in the laboratory just as easy as you can create something."
God said, "OK let's see who can create a human from dirt."
The scientist reached down and gathered up some dirt...
God said, "Hey! Get your own dirt!"
Genesis 1:9 says that God made the dry land appear. It doesn't say He made it. The creation stories suggest that He started with existing matter, just like we do.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by Phat, posted 09-23-2020 2:57 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by Phat, posted 09-23-2020 1:13 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 316 of 327 (882471)
09-24-2020 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by Phat
09-23-2020 1:13 PM


Re: How much of secular philosophy is objectively true?
Phat writes:
the authors had no concept of a universal Creator or of anything other than the ground they walked on.
So why are YOU so much more enlightened than they were? You take it for granted that YOU are inspired by God. Why couldn't the writers of Genesis be inspired too? Why are YOU right and they are wrong?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by Phat, posted 09-23-2020 1:13 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 322 by Phat, posted 09-30-2020 8:10 AM ringo has replied

  
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