Miracle Of The Sun & Other Musings

A wee bit of humor:

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"Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, "Don't do it!" He said, "Nobody loves me." I said, "God loves you. Do you believe in God?"
He said, "Yes." I said, "Are you a Christian or a Jew?" He said, "A Christian." I said, "Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me, too! What franchise?" He said, "Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?" He said, "Northern Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"
He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist." I said, "Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region." I said, "Me, too!"
Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, "Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912." I said, "Die, heretic!" And I pushed him over."

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Also...

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A scientist got into an argument with God...
The scientist said, "We have decided we no longer need you, as we can create anything in the laboratory just as easy as you can create something."
God said, "OK let's see who can create a human from dirt."
The scientist reached down and gathered up some dirt...
God said, "Hey! Get your own dirt!"

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************ Sometimes I like to go off on philosophical rabbit trails and think abstractly and metaphorically. Other times I study arguments from different sides and draw my own conclusions about what I believe. I feel that belief deserves a spot beside evidence (as an alternative)
The bottom line in my approach to teaching, which I do not currently do though am cleared to do so...is to encourage people to think. Where I differ from jar, for example, is that I don't teach them to simply compare all religions as if they all fall under the category of human cultural invention. According to scripture, the Disciples did no different. (If they receive you they receive me and if they receive me they receive the One Who sent me.)So I would take several opposing concepts from scripture. Light & Dark or Visible & Invisible, for example.
And I would use them to make a point which encourages free associative type thinking. This differs from Science in that its not objectively factual...and my critics may charge me with being dishonest through making stuff up.My response is that what they teach only reinforces doubt. I market certainty in Jesus Christ.
They charge me with "making God up". I'm starting to think that it is useless to attempt to disprove this notion. Edited by Phat, : actually thinking about what I post

the authors had no concept of a universal Creator or of anything other than the ground they walked on. what else would you expect?

Even if it was, so wht? You claim to have experienced much the same things I have---although being Catholic you likely did not. Irrelevant only in that we have no way to objectively investigate the arguments. You sure were quick to drop the ideas, however. I and 2 others heard voices from nowhere coming out in the air. We were in a controlled environment (my apartment). Again, you reject the beliefs because in your mind there is simply no way that they could happen.As I told Son Goku, I feel that belief deserves a spot of its own alongside evidence.For some reason, (perhaps because you dont accept any explanation) you throw all of the belief away, or chalk it up to human cultural need.

No. Thats not how it works. If it did, you and I would not be disagreeing.I am reading a good book that you would actually like (I think). Well, you wouldnt like the topic but you would relate to the author.
Message 1I think I will talk about it over in the Book Nook.And just so you all know...Science Mike is *not* a Biblical Creationist from the CCoI. He has been through several stages in his life and is an inquisitive autodidact who is well respected in the community-at-large.Edited by Phat, : added

Why is it important to independently verify something? What if by design the message was not for everybody but only for those who had ears to hear and who were not evidence based sticks in the mud who never embraced Jesus due to the fact that they were too busy trying to figure Him out to have a relationship?

The intellectual error that you make is placing your brains in the hands of critical thinking, evidence, and relativism. You always ask me how one would know whether accepting Jesus was possible and how one would know...yet you throw cultural relativism in the mix and thus taint the issue before you even start. There is only One God. Is it possible that *any* of us know Him? Is it possible that it is the One Spirit that people actually know and not a feeling made up in their heads? Is it possible that your worldview has been wrong for 50 years?

Which Satan? Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Im not talking about Mike The Wiz! You really need to pay attention before you criticize. I am talking about Mike McHargue

no other gods=no other objects of worship from which one derives power....such as Golden Calfs, various drugs, or porn, or intoxicants...even such innocuous objects which some may worship such as money or guns. Or pens! ....and some would argue that thopugh there is but One God there is many many demons. Of course to a relativist, if everyone has a"God"in their own head...we all are sinning against GOD. But thats another argument.Now addressing your relativistic argument.

Allah is One monotheistic "God" who had no son.

Ganesh is part of the Hindu "pantheon" and is well known and revered within that culture. Ganesh_ChaturthiA relativist would assign this character the same value that is assigned to Jehovah, or elohim, or Jesus or His Father. For those of us who believe that the God(Father) and Son Jesus are in fact a Trinitarian Monotheistic concept, we would of course reject Loki, Ganesh, Coyote, Allah, and the Spaghetti Monster. You either take a stand or you don't. The very fact that you dont have any One Spirit or "God" in mind as being the true God shows that your intellect blinds you to Monotheistic truth. But let us assume that you are simply making an arguiment and challenging me to think about relativism.
Remember when you got confirmed? What did you say in the ceremony?

jars Belief Statement writes:

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Bishop Do you believe in God the Father?
People I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
Bishop Do you believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
People I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
Bishop Do you believe in God the Holy Spirit?
People I believe in the Holy Spirit,

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Now...you may argue that we could insert Ganesh into a similar statement as we could Coyote as we could Allah. You thus are arguing relativism as a valid human condition.

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But let me ask you this: Does God the Father, Jesus Christ, and The Holy Spirit have any more meaning to your inner spirit and belief than does Loki, Ganesh, or Coyote? If not, you never received anything more than grape juice and a cracker when you partook of Communion.

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"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
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far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox

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The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killosophy

What is what?

Well now, thats a good question that I need to ask myself and pray about.Whats that you say? Evidence needs to be evident for eveerybody in the room? What is it that makes global consensus and agreement concerning evidence (on the topic of religion vs no religion and early understanding of god vs later understanding of evolved "reality" and these "Theological things?)

The global default "position" (if there even was such a thing) is not atheism. Lets slay that demon once and for all time.Many of you wish that were the case, but it is highly unlikely in our lifetimes.

I see this paradigm a bit differently than you do. I realize that religion by definition is entirely human invented. Some semantics, though:

If we can stop religion forcing itself on the kids and the world ...How can a word force "itself" on anything? And if the "default" is secularism, why do we need to legislate or "force" what can be taught? That to me is as much of a control issue through limitation as it is through proselyting.

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I would use the term "spiritual. I believe that there is One Spirit of Creativity and a host of imitators. I believe that freedom of speech allows for fair representation in a marketplace of ideas and should *not* be suppressed unless and until the product marketed is a proven harm to oneself and others. And this claim has not been conclusively demonstrated in all cases.

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"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
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far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox

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The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killosophy