Miracle Of The Sun & Other Musings

Even if it was, so wht? You claim to have experienced much the same things I have---although being Catholic you likely did not. Irrelevant only in that we have no way to objectively investigate the arguments. You sure were quick to drop the ideas, however. I and 2 others heard voices from nowhere coming out in the air. We were in a controlled environment (my apartment). Again, you reject the beliefs because in your mind there is simply no way that they could happen.As I told Son Goku, I feel that belief deserves a spot of its own alongside evidence.For some reason, (perhaps because you dont accept any explanation) you throw all of the belief away, or chalk it up to human cultural need.

Why?Evidence can be independently verified; beliefs can not be independently verified.There is simply no plausible reason to place beliefs alongside anything but other beliefs and all beliefs are equally valid and equally worthless.

The spot alongside evidence is logic. There's no more room up there. No room at the inn, if you will.You'll have to take your belief somewhere else.

What do 'they' teach? I've never seen or heard of anyone going into prisons - or anywhere else for that matter - teaching 'doubt'. What is this doubt and who are these teachers? If you weren't making it up you'd be easily able to prove it wouldn't you? You are incredibly bad at telling others what they think and believe. Surely you've picked up on that fact now? Every time you say something like that it's wrong and it's been pointed out to you many times by many people. This should tell you that you're misunderstanding people all the time. You're filtering and re-interpreting our answers to fit a model in your head. It's weird to watch.There are many explanations for your 'voices'. The least likely being god talking to you. You dismiss out of hand the experience of others and you totally ignore the evidence that many millions of people hear 'god' telling them totally different things - even in the same religion. Nobody has ever heard Jesus talk to them that had not previously known about Jesus.That single experience of yours prevents and pollutes all your other thought processes.

No. Thats not how it works. If it did, you and I would not be disagreeing.I am reading a good book that you would actually like (I think). Well, you wouldnt like the topic but you would relate to the author.
Message 1I think I will talk about it over in the Book Nook.And just so you all know...Science Mike is *not* a Biblical Creationist from the CCoI. He has been through several stages in his life and is an inquisitive autodidact who is well respected in the community-at-large.Edited by Phat, : added

Why is it important to independently verify something? What if by design the message was not for everybody but only for those who had ears to hear and who were not evidence based sticks in the mud who never embraced Jesus due to the fact that they were too busy trying to figure Him out to have a relationship?

Because lots of folk have beliefs and their beliefs are often mutually exclusive. What if by design the message was not for everybody but only for those who had ears to hear and who were not evidence based sticks in the mud who never embraced Allah due to the fact that they were too busy trying to figure Him out to have a relationship?What if by design the message was not for everybody but only for those who had ears to hear and who were not evidence based sticks in the mud who never embraced Ganesh due to the fact that they were too busy trying to figure Him out to have a relationship?What if by design the message was not for everybody but only for those who had ears to hear and who were not evidence based sticks in the mud who never embraced Coyote due to the fact that they were too busy trying to figure Him out to have a relationship?Each of those statements is equally valid and equally worthless.And more importantly, none of them are supported by any evidence that can be independently tested and evaluated.Satan is strong in you.

The intellectual error that you make is placing your brains in the hands of critical thinking, evidence, and relativism. You always ask me how one would know whether accepting Jesus was possible and how one would know...yet you throw cultural relativism in the mix and thus taint the issue before you even start. There is only One God. Is it possible that *any* of us know Him? Is it possible that it is the One Spirit that people actually know and not a feeling made up in their heads? Is it possible that your worldview has been wrong for 50 years?

Which Satan? Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

That's exactly how it works. If you're sane. Ffs. MtW is just another self-taught Christian know-it-all/know-nothing with a mind corrupted by religiously motivated thinking. And he's got no respect in my community-at-large, whatever that is. By their fruits Probably writing a book.

Im not talking about Mike The Wiz! You really need to pay attention before you criticize. I am talking about Mike McHargue

Pfnrrr...

Really???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????Did you actually post something that stupid? Even the Bible stories say that is false Phat. Have you ever read the Bible? Who said "And God spake all these words, saying, I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me." What does the evidence show Phat?What if by design the message was not for everybody but only for those who had ears to hear and who were not evidence based sticks in the mud who never embraced Allah due to the fact that they were too busy trying to figure Him out to have a relationship?What if by design the message was not for everybody but only for those who had ears to hear and who were not evidence based sticks in the mud who never embraced Ganesh due to the fact that they were too busy trying to figure Him out to have a relationship?What if by design the message was not for everybody but only for those who had ears to hear and who were not evidence based sticks in the mud who never embraced Coyote due to the fact that they were too busy trying to figure Him out to have a relationship?As always, you never actually address the questions asked but instead simply repeat your dogma and market the god you create.

no other gods=no other objects of worship from which one derives power....such as Golden Calfs, various drugs, or porn, or intoxicants...even such innocuous objects which some may worship such as money or guns. Or pens! ....and some would argue that thopugh there is but One God there is many many demons. Of course to a relativist, if everyone has a"God"in their own head...we all are sinning against GOD. But thats another argument.Now addressing your relativistic argument.

Allah is One monotheistic "God" who had no son.

Ganesh is part of the Hindu "pantheon" and is well known and revered within that culture. Ganesh_ChaturthiA relativist would assign this character the same value that is assigned to Jehovah, or elohim, or Jesus or His Father. For those of us who believe that the God(Father) and Son Jesus are in fact a Trinitarian Monotheistic concept, we would of course reject Loki, Ganesh, Coyote, Allah, and the Spaghetti Monster. You either take a stand or you don't. The very fact that you dont have any One Spirit or "God" in mind as being the true God shows that your intellect blinds you to Monotheistic truth. But let us assume that you are simply making an arguiment and challenging me to think about relativism.
Remember when you got confirmed? What did you say in the ceremony?

jars Belief Statement writes:

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Bishop Do you believe in God the Father?
People I believe in God, the Father almighty, creator of heaven and earth.
Bishop Do you believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?
People I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
Bishop Do you believe in God the Holy Spirit?
People I believe in the Holy Spirit,

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Now...you may argue that we could insert Ganesh into a similar statement as we could Coyote as we could Allah. You thus are arguing relativism as a valid human condition.

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But let me ask you this: Does God the Father, Jesus Christ, and The Holy Spirit have any more meaning to your inner spirit and belief than does Loki, Ganesh, or Coyote? If not, you never received anything more than grape juice and a cracker when you partook of Communion.

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"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
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far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox

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The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killosophy

There you go just making shit up instead of reading. Does it actually say "I am the Lord Thy God. ... Thou shalt have no other gods before me."And you also run off into your usual make shit up mode to imply I or others worship "stuff" like you did.We are not YOU Phat.Nor did anyone mention sin so no idea why you even bring that up except to once again try to palm the pea and avoid addressing what was actually written.