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Author Topic:   Broken Thinking Skills & Pointless Discussion
Tangle
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Posts: 7949
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 61 of 65 (882667)
10-04-2020 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Phat
10-04-2020 8:11 AM


Re: Un-Critical Thinking
Phat writes:

Though I'm quite sure that much of my thought process is also "broken" and uncritical.

It is, but it is something you can learn to do, it's a simply acquired skills. And the beauty of it is that the skills can be applied to anything. It's not a religious thing.

I know that I will never "throw God away" as jar suggests, yet am learning why I fall on this side of the fence rather than on Richard Dawkins side.

You don’t have to throw god away, you just have to discard all the utter bollox that goes with the process of believing. You could see even from that short clip that she simply could not think in a straight line. Her particular belief corrupts her entire ability to think critically.

By "most of the Christian Churches" you are likely referring to the Roman Catholic position which fully accepts Evolutioon as a viable concept.

No, I mean most Christian churches. Obviously the Catholic church accepts evolution which is the majority Christian belief system anyway, but so does Anglicanism and pretty much all others except the total loony lot. I understand that you live in the US and that the US is a total outlier as far as religious belief and evolution is concerned but most of the rest of the world looks on in amazement.

Im quite sure that most all Episcopal Churches would agree and that only thew modern day evangelical fundamentalists would put up much of a fuss.

There you go.

It's not a hard point to grasp that evolution and atheism are not the same thing, not even related.

But I'm only using the evolution thing to provide an example of how a belief can corrupt the thinking process.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
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PaulK
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Posts: 16572
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


(2)
Message 62 of 65 (882668)
10-04-2020 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Phat
10-04-2020 8:28 AM


Re: Will the true Creator please step forward.
quote:
Ouch. That hurt, but I will take it as a loving rebuke

Well, you have to remember that I was brought up Christian, and I still find negative depictions of God to be suspect. Perhaps underneath it all I really do want the loving and merciful God I was taught, but Christianity gets in the way of that (Calvinism especially).

quote:
One question, though. If you cant decide to want something that you really dont understand, why do you self identify as an atheist rather than an agnostic?

Wanting is not believing. Indeed I don’t trust myself when I want something to be true (the number of black headed gulls I’ve thought might be mediterranean gulls...). So, intellectually I find the idea of a god highly implausible, and piling religion on to that doesn’t make it any more likely. Maybe there’s some religion I haven’t given a fair shake, but Christianity and it’s major offshoots don’t seem to have much truth in them.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Phat, posted 10-04-2020 8:28 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
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Posts: 32955
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


(2)
Message 63 of 65 (882670)
10-04-2020 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Phat
10-04-2020 8:11 AM


an example of your Broken Thinking Skills
Phat writes:

I know that I will never "throw God away" as jar suggests, yet am learning why I fall on this side of the fence rather than on Richard Dawkins side.

You keep injecting what I post into replies to other folk while demonstrating that you are simply incapable of understanding or are unwilling to understand what I actually post.

Think for a minute about "throw God away" and the many instances where that is exactly what you do while never realizing or refusing to realize that is exactly what you do do.

There is a God in Genesis 1. That God is supremely competent but also aloof, apart, and has absolutely to contact or communion with what that God creates.

But you throw that God away; instead you create a God that is not apart, not aloof and that has communion with some chosen few that just happens include you.

There is a God in Genesis 2&3. That God is kinda incompetent, learning on the job, unsure, learning by trial and error, not fully honest and certainly not fair in its treatment of humans but it is approachable, helping and definitely in communion with Adam & Eve.

But you throw that God away; instead you create a God that is not unsure, not learning on the job, not working through trial and error, fully honest and incapable of lies or deceit.

The list of God(s) and god(s) that you do throw away is extensive and we have discussed many if not most of such examples. What you do is throw all God(s) and god(s) except the God you want and create away because it is the God you really really really want to be real.

GOD, God god.

I have never suggested that you throw GOD away. It's all the brazillion God(s) and god(s) that you and all other believers create that need to be thrown away. Stop worshipping a human creation, an idol, an ikon, coyote & raven & Loki that are what the Apologists of all time and all faiths create, costume, script and market.

Believe in GOD, the creator all that is, seen and unseen, the GOD that will judge your life after you die. Or don't. But why continue to believe in some God that ALL the evidence says is just a creation of human minds?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Phat, posted 10-04-2020 8:11 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 10-04-2020 3:17 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14654
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 64 of 65 (882680)
10-04-2020 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by jar
10-04-2020 9:43 AM


Re: an example of your Broken Thinking Skills
Finally I can relate to what you suggest, though it is not an easy thought process. There is fear that if I deconstruct God as I understand Him I will be left in the dark. Science Mike actually talks similar to you and I have been thinking outside my usual evangelical box lately....(well just a *little bit* outside!)

In all honesty:

I always keep the God I want. I throw all of the others soundly and firmly away.
I believe that GOD is also the living Spirit....the comforter promised through Jesus.
And I believe that GOD can be better understood through studying the Bible and Jesus than He(She,It) ever could through studying human literature.

But I appreciate your input. A good teacher challenges their students assumptions. All of you certainly;y challenge mine. Often I hate it. But I don't hate you.

I think I liked this post because you didn't call me stupid, accuse me of word salad, or say anything negative. It was refreshing, but I do note that you always encourage me to think.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by jar, posted 10-04-2020 9:43 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by jar, posted 10-04-2020 5:19 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32955
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 65 of 65 (882682)
10-04-2020 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Phat
10-04-2020 3:17 PM


Re: an example of your Broken Thinking Skills
Phat writes:

I always keep the God I want. I throw all of the others soundly and firmly away.

Exactly.

You keep the God you create.

But if GOD exists she is not any of the God(s) or god(s) that humans have created over the millennia.

GOD, if GOD exists is what IT is; not what we really really really want to be real.

AbE:

Phat writes:

And I believe that GOD can be better understood through studying the Bible and Jesus than He(She,It) ever could through studying human literature.

But again Phat, that is not what you do.

You do not study the Bible; instead you listen without question what Apologists tell you the Bible really says instead of what is actually written.

Second, there is no way to study Jesus other than through what humans have written about Jesus and even there, you do not actually study what is actually written but only what the Apologists market.

The Bible is just human literature, written by humans, edited by humans, compiled by humans, revised by humans, translated by humans, interpreted & marketed by humans.

Edited by jar, : fix )

Edited by jar, : see AbE:


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 10-04-2020 3:17 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
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