Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

Summations Only

Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 4302 of 4573 (882242)
09-16-2020 4:50 AM
Reply to: Message 4301 by Trump won
09-16-2020 2:28 AM


Always telling to see Jesus (who, if he existed, would have been Middle Eastern and dark skinned) portrayed as white and Anglo Saxon.
Does it grate, knowing that the chief object of worship in your religion would have been dark skinned ? Do you put your fingers in your ears and shout "LALALALALA" whenever that is pointed out to you ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4301 by Trump won, posted 09-16-2020 2:28 AM Trump won has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 4309 of 4573 (882364)
09-19-2020 5:25 AM
Reply to: Message 4308 by PaulK
09-19-2020 1:03 AM


Re: SCOTUS On the Right
Yep. The separation of powers and (as part of that) an independent judiciary, is one of the key requirements of a free democracy. But it's a concept which is more subtle and complex than the concept of citizens being able to vote in their legislature and/or executive. As a result, populists (aka wannabe dictators) are able to paint the judiciary as needing to be subject to the same choices and will of the people as they are - and as the people's currently chosen representatives, they get to choose and hence control the judiciary. And there goes the separation of powers, enabling the eventual transformation of a democracy into totalitarianism.
The enlightenment thinkers had it right. The cunning minds behind the populist pieces of shit who are currently floating to the top of the cess pit are clever enough to realise that the vast mass of voters will not understand the consequences of eroding the separation of powers.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4308 by PaulK, posted 09-19-2020 1:03 AM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4310 by Tangle, posted 09-19-2020 6:34 AM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 4370 of 4573 (882841)
10-20-2020 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 4369 by nwr
10-20-2020 8:29 AM


Re: The Foxconn failure in Wisconsin
Sadly, they (and other populists around the world) have learned that all you need to do is re-brand. Call evil "freedom loving," and the rubes will vote you in.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4369 by nwr, posted 10-20-2020 8:29 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4371 by ringo, posted 10-20-2020 12:08 PM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(8)
Message 4393 of 4573 (883238)
11-21-2020 2:40 AM


Trump's not your real problem
The Stupid Is Strong
The greatest danger isn't now - it's over the coming years. When this lot votes in your next populist, you know damn well the lessons he will have learned. His first Presidency will be spent rigging all future elections in his favour "to prevent those damned commie cheats rigging the elections again." And even when he's found out, this lot will still buy the lies and back him.
We need to reach out to the more intelligent of the deluded (with most of them, there's obviously no hope) and get them to understand that just because a populist or the Internet tells you something is real, it doesn't mean it is.
If a Trump gets in again, he will know what he has to do to destroy democracy in the States, and he will do it if he has enough of the deluded bowing to his will.
We haven't won the war - it's only just beginning.
Edited by vimesey, : No reason given.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

Replies to this message:
 Message 4394 by ICANT, posted 11-23-2020 9:05 PM vimesey has replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(3)
Message 4395 of 4573 (883254)
11-24-2020 1:09 AM
Reply to: Message 4394 by ICANT
11-23-2020 9:05 PM


Re: Trump's not your real problem
Hi Icant.
These are extracts from Merriam-Webster:
Definition of democracy
1a : government by the people
especially : rule of the majority
b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
Is the United States a democracy or a republic?
The United States is both a democracy and a republic. Democracies and republics are both forms of government in which supreme power resides in the citizens. The word republic refers specifically to a government in which those citizens elect representatives who govern according to the law. The word democracy can refer to this same kind of representational government, or it can refer instead to what is also called a direct democracy, in which the citizens themselves participate in the act of governing directly.
You’re limiting yourself to the original derivation of the word democracy, when applied to the original Greek system, involving direct decisions by (some) of the citizens on state matters. As with all words, the meaning can, and has, evolved over time - it now refers not simply to direct democracy, but also to a representative democracy, as the above dictionary quotations demonstrate.
Denying that the United States is a democracy seems a new approach to smoothing the path for populist takeover. May I ask where you came across the notion ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4394 by ICANT, posted 11-23-2020 9:05 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4396 by ICANT, posted 11-25-2020 12:17 AM vimesey has replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(5)
Message 4397 of 4573 (883271)
11-25-2020 3:51 AM
Reply to: Message 4396 by ICANT
11-25-2020 12:17 AM


Re: Trump's not your real problem
Hi ICANT
You're not following the point I'm making. Democracy is a collective noun for a lot of different governments around the world. Those governments differ in the detail, but not in the principles which qualify them as belonging to the group that is called democracies. Have a look at this Wiki page:
Democracy - Wikipedia
I'm saying to you that you have a dog. You're saying to me that you don't have a dog, you have a Golden Retriever.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4396 by ICANT, posted 11-25-2020 12:17 AM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4403 by ICANT, posted 11-26-2020 1:21 AM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 4406 of 4573 (883296)
11-26-2020 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 4405 by jar
11-26-2020 7:32 AM


Re: Trump's most recent terrorist attack on the US
Absolutely - and an all-loving, all-caring, all-virtuous God would of course insist that his worshipers spread a deadly disease in large gatherings to worship him, rather than perfectly happily doing it privately and safely. He’s nice like that.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4405 by jar, posted 11-26-2020 7:32 AM jar has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(4)
Message 4435 of 4573 (883535)
12-15-2020 2:49 PM


Oh dear
A quotation from a supporter of the Tangerine Turd on his Twitter feed today:
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor
(And no, I didn’t neglect to copy the question mark - there was no question mark)...

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

Replies to this message:
 Message 4437 by jar, posted 12-15-2020 7:05 PM vimesey has not replied
 Message 4438 by DrJones*, posted 12-15-2020 7:56 PM vimesey has replied
 Message 4447 by ringo, posted 12-22-2020 11:34 AM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 4439 of 4573 (883542)
12-16-2020 2:13 AM
Reply to: Message 4438 by DrJones*
12-15-2020 7:56 PM


Re: Oh dear
That did occur to me, but if it is, it’s a good one.
(The thought of trawling through his Twitter feed to see if the guy has posted before was too revolting to contemplate).

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4438 by DrJones*, posted 12-15-2020 7:56 PM DrJones* has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 4460 of 4573 (883655)
01-03-2021 6:05 PM


Coolio needs to re-release
US election: Trump tells Georgia election official to 'find' votes to overturn Biden win - BBC News
And remember, where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that. — Lord Acton

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 4469 of 4573 (883680)
01-06-2021 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 4468 by jar
01-06-2021 3:41 PM


Re: Coup!
I think he’s seriously overplayed his hand here.
Cruz and co will now be associated with an attempted armed coup if they argue the bullshit stolen election bollocks.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4468 by jar, posted 01-06-2021 3:41 PM jar has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 4474 of 4573 (883685)
01-06-2021 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 4473 by AZPaul3
01-06-2021 4:34 PM


This is going nowhere serious - but it is going to seriously undermine the Tangerine Turd’s attempts to manufacture a movement after his inevitable removal from office.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4473 by AZPaul3, posted 01-06-2021 4:34 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 4496 of 4573 (883713)
01-08-2021 4:26 AM
Reply to: Message 4495 by Tangle
01-08-2021 2:40 AM


I wonder whether Washington has such a crime on its local books. The Tangerine Turd can pardon federal crimes, but not non-federal ones.
Also, Giuliani and the Baby Turd are in line for any such charges too.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4495 by Tangle, posted 01-08-2021 2:40 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4497 by jar, posted 01-08-2021 7:32 AM vimesey has not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 4501 of 4573 (883722)
01-08-2021 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 4500 by Percy
01-08-2021 12:23 PM


Re: We Knew It All Along
It is the power of stupid. Democracy’s greatest weakness, as I’ve said before. There are an awful lot of stupid, poorly educated people, and they all get a vote.
Hitler understood this - from Mein Kampf:
Propaganda must not investigate the truth objectively and, in so far as it is favorable to the other side, present it according to the theoretical rules of justice; yet it must present only that aspect of the truth which is favorable to its own side. (...) The receptive powers of the masses are very restricted, and their understanding is feeble. On the other hand, they quickly forget. Such being the case, all effective propaganda must be confined to a few bare essentials and those must be expressed as far as possible in stereotyped formulas. These slogans should be persistently repeated until the very last individual has come to grasp the idea that has been put forward. (...) Every change that is made in the subject of a propagandist message must always emphasize the same conclusion. The leading slogan must, of course, be illustrated in many ways and from several angles, but in the end one must always return to the assertion of the same formula.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4500 by Percy, posted 01-08-2021 12:23 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(4)
Message 4506 of 4573 (883730)
01-09-2021 4:39 AM


Further thoughts.
I’ve been thinking a little further and more deeply about Trumpism, MAGA, Libertarianism, The Tea Party movement, as a collective phenomenon, and my crediting their power to the stupidity of the mass of their supporters is probably too simplistic.
Certainly, stupidity accounts for part of it, but I’ve heard a few Trumpists interviewed, and a good number of them seem reasonably articulate and intelligent.
Is it a factor that American society has become so used to having belief (in other words, evangelist Christianity) pushed past evidence, that the right wing populists can sell their false narrative to people, in the total absence of evidence for that narrative. People have, in short, become used to being brainwashed.
This is what makes Trumpism so hard to defeat - trying to get people to accept evidence, will result in them having to also question their fundamentalist religious beliefs.
ABE - same goes for conspiracy theories, QAnon etc - all linked very cleverly to right wing populism. No evidence - loads of belief.
Edited by vimesey, : No reason given.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

Replies to this message:
 Message 4507 by Tangle, posted 01-09-2021 5:08 AM vimesey has not replied
 Message 4508 by Phat, posted 01-09-2021 5:26 AM vimesey has not replied
 Message 4510 by jar, posted 01-09-2021 7:29 AM vimesey has not replied
 Message 4511 by nwr, posted 01-09-2021 1:56 PM vimesey has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024