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Author Topic:   The Biden Presidency
Percy
Member
Posts: 20117
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 1 of 120 (883984)
01-20-2021 4:28 PM


So far, so good. I have only one criticism so far: Regarding Biden's economy/virus program, the stimulus checks should not be sent to everyone. They should be dependent upon need.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Phat, posted 01-20-2021 6:10 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 52 by ramoss, posted 01-25-2021 9:27 PM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20117
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 39 of 120 (884042)
01-21-2021 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by LamarkNewAge
01-20-2021 9:58 PM


Re: There was an anti-impeachment group created around 1998.
LamarkNewAge writes:

Show me your best quote that Trump called for insurrection.

Probably The Trump Post-Presidency is a better thread for this discussion.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-20-2021 9:58 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20117
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 40 of 120 (884043)
01-21-2021 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by PaulK
01-21-2021 2:47 AM


Re: Biden's supporters better understand that an issue agenda is the be all and end all
PaulK writes:

quote:
So Trump possibly wanted an attack?

So, instead of answering the question you try and misrepresent the situation.

I guess the proves you have no honest defence.

Trump told them to attack, he just didn’t say so explicitlyl. There was no other way to win or to exert their strength that would affect the outcome. And you know that, that’s why you evade the point.

Just sort of suggesting again to the thread that discussions of the Trump post presidency and the issues he faces in light of his actions during his presidency might be better taken to the The Trump Post-Presidency thread.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by PaulK, posted 01-21-2021 2:47 AM PaulK has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20117
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 50 of 120 (884158)
01-23-2021 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by AnswersInGenitals
01-23-2021 4:39 PM


Re: Message to Republicans
AnswersInGenitals writes:

The IOU’s the government prints (which they call BONDs) are our country’s second form of money, because it is legal tender, whose total amount is not controlled.

The finances of the federal government are complicated. Even attempts at simplified descriptions, at least by me, are bound to have errors and omissions, but anyway...

Appropriations and the debt limit are under the control of Congress, though of course the signature of the president is required. The debt limit controls the total amount of government IOUs that can be issued (in the form of bonds), but the debt can increase beyond the debt limit for appropriated items because while Treasury cannot issue payment, the government will be billed thereby increasing the debt. The bills will go unpaid until the debt limit is increased, though Treasury does have some extraordinary measures at its disposal to pay at least some bills.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 01-23-2021 4:39 PM AnswersInGenitals has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20117
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 53 of 120 (884214)
01-28-2021 7:11 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by ramoss
01-25-2021 9:27 PM


For the second stimulus check, the $600 one, for a married couple filing jointly the total stimulus check amount is $1200, but it begins diminishing at $150,000 and reaches zero at $175,000.

For the proposed third stimulus check, the $1400 Biden one, I think the limits are the same.

The limits seem generous, but aside from that what I'd really like to see is the bulk of the stimulus going to unemployed and needy people. People who have kept their jobs have much less need for stimulus checks.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by ramoss, posted 01-25-2021 9:27 PM ramoss has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 01-29-2021 8:42 AM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20117
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 56 of 120 (884224)
01-30-2021 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Phat
01-29-2021 8:42 AM


Phat writes:

perhaps this is theoretically so, but the cutoff should not be simply at having a job versus not having a job. Some jobs barely pa1y the bills...and we need a stimulus too. The bills have piled up this past year.

Everything being said cannot appear in every single sentence. It simply isn't possible. The first sentence you quoted said, "unemployed and needy people." The next sentence went on to stress that those still employed have less need for stimulus checks because I see that as the least rational part of the program, but it did not represent a retraction of the previous sentence, that the emphasis for stimulus should be on the unemployed and needy, nor a rejection of the earlier criticism of the high limits.

Comment or criticism cannot limit itself to one sentence (or paragraph or section or post of a thread or a body of work) while ignoring the context of what surrounds it or has gone before, otherwise it's akin to quote mining.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Phat, posted 01-29-2021 8:42 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Phat, posted 01-30-2021 12:22 PM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20117
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 57 of 120 (884225)
01-30-2021 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by xongsmith
01-29-2021 1:22 PM


xongsmith writes:

Phat writes:

having a job versus not having a job.

do you make $150,000 or more? No? then you will get a full stimulus.

I think Phat is single, so his limit is $75,000.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by xongsmith, posted 01-29-2021 1:22 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20117
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 65 of 120 (884252)
02-01-2021 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Phat
01-30-2021 12:22 PM


Re: . Response To Needy People
Phat writes:

The real issue is government debt and how far it can realistically increase.

Predictions of deficits causing disaster have been made since time immemorial. Back in the latter half of the 18th century the British feared deficit disaster and taxed the American colonies to help pay down their deficits, causing rebellion. Deficit hawks predicting disaster have as good a record as Christians predicting end times. We have far more to fear from rash actions driven by deficit fears than from the deficits themselves.

Who have been most critical of our current deficits, both budgetary and the national debt? Conservatives, of course, but they're terrifically inconstant about it. Over the four years of the Trump administration, which racked up enormous deficits even before covid, conservatives expressed very little concern about deficits, but Biden wasn't even in office a week before conservatives started making deficits one of their top concerns. This is because their concern is not driven by objective considerations but by politics. Conservative concerns are about as genuine as Trump's claims of election fraud, and you're falling for it.

People can get a mortgage that is 3 or 4 or even 5 (California) times their annual income. The current national debt is $27 trillion while the 2020 GDP was about $21 trillion, or about 1.3 times the country's annual income. If people who carry mortgages 3, 4 or 5 times their annual incomes do fine, then how can it be true that the US is heading for disaster by running a deficit only 1.3 times its annual income?

I have always said that in Biden's term, we will see inflation...

Trump ran huge deficits. Why would the deficits wait until Trump's presidency ended to cause inflation? Do you think that if Trump had been reelected that low inflation would magically continue, just like the virus magically disappeared?

...and possible abandonment of the US dollar if things get too far out of hand.

Say what?

The dollar coupled with our ability to create more of them with the stroke of a pen gives the US citizens an advantage which the world may not soon tolerate. Which worries me.

With few exceptions (those countries without a domestic currency), every country in the world can "print" more money. And governments running the printing presses isn't the only way to create money. Increased bank lending can also increase the money supply - look up "money multiplier." The Fed tries to control bank lending by setting interest rates.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Phat, posted 01-30-2021 12:22 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 02-02-2021 12:37 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20117
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


(3)
Message 69 of 120 (884257)
02-02-2021 10:40 AM


The Stimulus Plan I'd Like to See
The Republican plan would provide $1000 checks to those earning below $40,000 a year. The Democrat plan would provide $1400 checks to those earning below $75,000 a year. The payments in both plans gradually phase out above those limits. Double all figures for married couples.

I'd rather see a plan that provided $2000 checks to those earning below $20,000 a year and phase out linearly up to $100,000. A $50,000 earner would get $1250, a $75,000 earner $625, a $100,000 earner zero. Again, double all figures for married couples.

This addresses the dual purpose of stimulus checks: stimulus *and* assistance, and it gives the most assistance to the most needy. It also helps out landlords by making it more likely that the most needy can pay their rent, and it helps out the mortgage industry by making it more likely that landlords can pay their mortgages.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 02-02-2021 3:56 PM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20117
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 72 of 120 (884266)
02-02-2021 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by AnswersInGenitals
02-02-2021 3:56 PM


Re: The Stimulus Plan I'd Like to See
AnswersInGenitals writes:

Can this logic be used to justify a Universal Basic Income (UBI) program, or does it only apply to dire situations?

I guess what I'd like to see in place of our current patchwork of assistance programs is something that more resembles social engineering, but Republicans would never allow it.

Someone who emigrated from India told me a story a long while back that helps make clear where I'm coming from. Back in India they had good jobs and lived in a fancy apartment building, but the stench from open sewers in the streets was overpowering, easily detectable even on the upper floors, and the sidewalk in front of their building was filled with temporary structures erected by the homeless who they had to pass on their way in and out. How good, really, is the quality of life in a fancy apartment if you're forced into close quarters with intolerable poverty and ignorance?

We have poverty here, too. Aggressively attacking poverty through programs that, perhaps over a generation, transform the poor into productive educated contributors to society would greatly improve everyone's quality of life. The key is to cast aside a couple attitudes. Cast aside the goal of isolating oneself from exposure to poverty and its effects (e.g., gated communities). Cast aside blaming the poor for their poverty. The goal should be to improve the lot of those worst off, thereby improving things both economically and socially.

The possibility of something like this seems far removed at this time. Those treated worst by Trump policies seem to love him the most.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 02-02-2021 3:56 PM AnswersInGenitals has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20117
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 76 of 120 (884403)
02-16-2021 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Phat
02-15-2021 11:29 PM


Re: Democrats are inheriting another fiscal mess.
Phat writes:

Keep in mind that the deficit is the shortfall amount in one budget year. The DEBT is the sum total of all deficits. The amounts are all off of the charts. This bill wont get paid due to the fact that every American owes close to $100,000 were it shared equally. One can only kick a can down a road while there is even a road.

The average American's mortgage debt is around $215,000. Your calculated equivalency of total US government debt as $100,000 per American is less than half that. Please explain why this is cause for concern.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Add question about why the sudden increase in concern about inflation.

Edited by Percy, : Restore original since Phat already replied.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Phat, posted 02-15-2021 11:29 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Phat, posted 02-16-2021 10:33 AM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20117
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 78 of 120 (884410)
02-16-2021 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Phat
02-16-2021 10:33 AM


Re: Democrats are inheriting another fiscal mess.
Let me attempt a different reply to your Message 75:

Phat writes:

Keep in mind that the deficit is the shortfall amount in one budget year. The DEBT is the sum total of all deficits. The amounts are all off of the charts. This bill wont get paid due to the fact that every American owes close to $100,000 were it shared equally. One can only kick a can down a road while there is even a road.

It's actually less than that, around $82,000, but rendering the national debt as a per person amount isn't meaningful. You should compare it to GDP. The national debt is $27 trillion, GDP is $21 trillion, so the national debt is only 1.3 times national earnings. Given that people can get mortgages that are 2, 3, 4 and sometimes even 5 times their annual earnings, why do you think a national debt of only 1.3 times annual national earnings is off the charts?

Also, the national debt is constantly cycled through bonds ranging up the 30 years maturity and is never actually paid off. A bond's rating is a measure of the amount of risk, the likelihood of the bond issuer to make good on the bond. The rating of bonds of the United States is AAA, the highest possible.

If your alarm at our national debt were justified, if it were beginning to exceed bond rating agencies estimation of our ability to repay, then US bond ratings would begin dropping below AAA. This is not happening because the bond rating agencies do not agree with your opinion that the national debt is alarmingly high and beyond our ability to repay.

Why has inflation suddenly become a cause for concern for you now that Trump has left office and Biden has been on the job only four weeks? You never used the word inflation (or inflationary, etc.) even once in the entire The Trump Presidency thread. Here's a graph of recent deficits. After the 2008 financial crisis wound down, federal deficits decreased every year but one until the Trump presidency when they increased every single year:

The timing of your sudden inflationary concerns coincide with the change in administration, not with any actual change in America's ability to pay its debts.

Moving on to your current message:

Because unlike our mortgage, the principal on this debt keeps growing...lately to the tune of over a trillion dollars a year.

The principle on the national debt has been growing most years for a long, long time. What matters isn't the absolute magnitude of the debt but the debt as a percent of GDP, since GDP is a measure of our ability to repay. Here's a graph of the national debt (the red portion) since 1900. We're at historically high levels, approaching where we were shortly after WWII, but we grew out of it. What makes you think we won't begin growing out of it again as the economy recovers?

The principal is growing faster than even the possible payments could be.

I refer you back again to the bond rating agencies. If our debt were truly growing beyond our ability to repay, why are our bonds still rated AAA?

Soon, every bit of the tax dollars collected will have to go towards paying just the interest.

Recently only 8.7% of federal outlays were for interest on the national debt, so what makes you say this?

There is no 35 year or 50 year plan to pay the debt off.

Why do you think it important to pay off the debt?

I am no economist,...

You don't need to be an economist to discuss this topic, but you know little enough to be easily manipulated by misinformation.

...but to me this means that eventually the government will have to admit default.

Don't you think default would be preceded over a number of years by gradually declining bond ratings?

The US Dollar itself may well be the next bubble.

Currencies float against one another. The dollar has been up against the Euro, the Canadian dollar and the Japanese yen. Where do you see evidence of this bubble?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Phat, posted 02-16-2021 10:33 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by dwise1, posted 02-16-2021 2:24 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20117
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 86 of 120 (884959)
03-17-2021 10:16 AM


Does Stupidity Go With The Job?
The Biden administration has in effect put a gag order on the Border Patrol: Border agents feel they are under "gag order" from Biden administration. I hope the news media puts in extra effort to find out precisely what's going on.

The big question is, "Why did the Biden administration do this?" We already know that Biden's less malevolent and less restrictive border policies are causing a surge at the border that we're not prepared to deal with, and we know that conditions are worsening for those trying to enter the country either illegally or as asylum seekers.

So given what we already know, why is the Biden administration trying to restrict the flow of information? Biden's good intentions are causing the suffering to be transferred from Mexican soil to American, but (it appears to me) we're working hard to fix it. Biden just recently directing FEMA to become involved. Currently it's a mess down there, but unlike the Trump administration's demonization of immigrants as justification for inhumane treatment, the Biden administration believes that most of those trying to cross our borders are good people who deserve to be treated decently, and the administration is (I hope) working hard to improve the situation.

So why the Border Patrol gag order?

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by jar, posted 03-17-2021 10:37 AM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20117
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 92 of 120 (884974)
03-17-2021 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by jar
03-17-2021 10:37 AM


Re: Does Stupidity Go With The Job?
jar writes:

First, it's no where near the mess as popularly reported.

From What things are like in the Border Patrol facilities where migrant children are held:

quote:
Children are alternating schedules to make space for one another in confined facilities, some kids haven't seen sunlight in days, and others are taking turns showering, often going days without one.

That's the reality for the thousands of unaccompanied migrant children held up in US Border Patrol custody for days on end, according to case managers, attorneys and Border Patrol agents.


So presumably CNN has been interviewing "case managers, attorneys and Border Patrol agents." I'm trying to understand why the Biden administration is muzzling the Border Patrol? What happened to transparency. I understand that politicians' natural inclination is to control the message, but the optics on this are really bad. In situations like this the administration should ask, "What would Trump do?" then do the opposite.

The article continues:

quote:
Customs and Border Protection is on pace to encounter more individuals on the border than in the last 20 years, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas said Tuesday, adding that the agency is coming across children as young as six and seven years old.

So according to DHS secretary Mayorkas we're on a pace to exceed the highest immigration numbers in 20 years. Mayorkas also said, “We have a very serious challenge, and I don’t think the difficulty of that challenge can be overstated. We also have a plan to address it. We are executing on our plan and we will succeed.”

I don't that I'd characterize the border crisis as a "mess," but certainly available resources are being overwhelmed.

I don't think the Biden administration should do anything to hide the details of the situation. They should be very transparent about the problems while at the same time developing and executing a plan to compassionately and humanely handle it. Giving the appearance of a coverup is the last thing they should do.

Second, the surge is only the inevitable result of four years of intentional mismanagement and the utter stupidity of the Three Stooges in Austin.
...
The issue is that the Three Stooges as well as much of the management at BP/ICE/HS are not willing to treat the situation as an opportunity but rather only as a Law Enforcement issue. Instead of sending medical supplies and testing supplies and support staff they are sending police. Instead of working to set up a cooperative Governmental/NGO operation they are maintaining separate roles.

I think the surge is a natural result of ending Trump's "wait in Mexico" policy, of the hope Biden gave potential immigrants by promising to provide a path to citizenship for the country's current 11 million resident immigrants, of removing the restrictions on child immigrants from certain parts of Central America, and of making clear his belief that even people attempting illegal entry deserve to be treated humanely.

The limit on BP/ICE/HS reporting is really a reasonable position, particularly since those folk have actually been the biggest creator of the problems.

But we can't have it both ways. We can't assert that Trump was the driver of inhumane treatment while he was in office, then later assert that the driving force actually came from the people on the front lines at our borders.

BP/ICE/HS have refused to do testing for anything, TB, Covid or any of the other endemic threats. They have refused to coordinated with private social services or to only cooperate when the cameras are running.

But this isn't the policy of the current administration, and my understanding is that they're committed to fixing this. In fact Mayorkas said today that while some unspecified number of migrants had been released into the US without testing, that situation has been fixed.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by jar, posted 03-17-2021 10:37 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 03-18-2021 7:23 AM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20117
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 93 of 120 (884976)
03-17-2021 7:41 PM


Where are the N95 masks?
Carpenters, painters and wall-boarders still cannot drop into Home Depot to purchase N95 masks important to protecting their lungs while they work, and also the best protection against the novel coronavirus. Why isn't the Biden administration doing everything within its power, including invoking the Defense Production Act, to flood the country with N95 masks?

I can only shake my head at the number of people I see wearing surgical or cloth masks with huge gaps on the sides of the nose and by the cheeks. Or even worse, wearing the mask below their nose, as if their nose didn't connect to the same lungs as their mouth. One good thing about a decent N95 mask is that because it is semi-rigid it is very difficult to wear below below the nose.

Trump hollowed out the government on so many different fronts that subsequent administrations will be working for years to repair the damage, but the Biden administration has an opportunity if they move fast enough, which is to provide sufficient numbers of high quality N95 masks to take us through this critical period until we've achieved sufficient nationwide vaccination.

Speaking of which, resistance to vaccination continues to look like a real problem. I've always thought that TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) was misdefined. It should apply to those who have been, and largely continue to be, duped by Trump. It is TDS that causes so many Trump supporters to say they'll reject the vaccine.

There's true irony here. Trump did only one positive thing concerning covid-19, which was to initiate the warp-speed vaccine partnership program with drug companies. But his base cannot shake the dismissive attitude Trump took toward masks as a personal freedom issue. They are applying that same mindset to the vaccine and rejecting the only good thing Trump did against covid-19.

The personal freedom argument against masks makes little sense, but it didn't originate with Trump. The 1918 pandemic also saw protests against masks as a personal freedom issue. It was stupid then and it is stupid now. Masks are no more a personal freedom issue than speed limits, stop lights and driving on the correct side of the road. Hermits can make up their own rules, but anyone living in a society has to make concessions to the greater good, and not spreading disease is definitely for the greater good.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.


Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-17-2021 9:02 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
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