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Author Topic:   2020 Election early voting and eventually results
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5840
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 94 of 200 (883025)
10-31-2020 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by anglagard
10-31-2020 9:25 PM


Re: Judicial Retention Elections
I can't seem to find anything about any "lifetime appointment." What I am suggesting is allowing the electorate to be the judge of behavior in the phrase "shall hold their offices during good behavior."

quote:
shall hold their Offices during good Behaviour
At the time it was written the phrase had only the one meaning. A lifetime appointment. That was the original intent and will be preserved by the courts.

but for reasons I've already stated, it is not viable over the long term.

Remind me, please. What viability is lost over the long term? Other than being a new dynamic in national politics I can not see any obvious glaring dangers to the republic by varying the number of SCOTUS seats even by every administration. If both houses of congress agree then there appears no defensible position to legally object.

What you are criticizing is being done already at the state level.

Yes, it is. I have it here in Arizona. It sucks. There are constant scandals. And, as you might expect, they usually involve favors and donations. Can't seem to help it given the need to raise outside cash to get to keep your job.

For an openly political organ this behavior is, maybe not countenanced, but somewhat expected. Everyone can relate their favorite parts of the Citizens United discussion.

I submit none of that will help maintain the independence of the judiciary. I submit it would do quite the opposite and would shatter the courts with bias.

Perhaps you would prefer the Supreme Court pick the next President regardless of the wishes of the majority.

I'm gonna have to think on this. It does have an appeal.

Edited by AZPaul3, : i splin goodly

Edited by AZPaul3, : dang i spel proficiently good


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by anglagard, posted 10-31-2020 9:25 PM anglagard has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5840
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 95 of 200 (883026)
11-01-2020 1:29 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by anglagard
10-31-2020 9:25 PM


Re: Judicial Retention Elections
not any 'oversight' the Senate who approved their appointment in the first place chooses not to perform.

What oversight was missed? We're still talking SCOTUS seats, right? Ok, extend that to SCOTUS personnel. The justices themselves.

There is a procedure that one side or the other always screams foul on regardless of whose turn it is. For some centuries now (yeah, I know, all of 2. We're still new at this.) that procedure has produced justices.

Now that the justice is seated you want some kind of more oversite? How about if the congress doesn't like this guy (or girl, yes, of course, to keep some balance within another bothersome conversation) they get to impeach him, try him and kick him (her, it, them, pick a pronoun) out. (God, that's bothersome syntax)

That's a pretty big oversight congress uses on this independent co-equal branch of government. The congress practices this oversight quite diligently at all levels of the federal courts. Even tried a Supreme once.

I don’t see anything missing.

Oh, certainly, you're not suggesting some kind of ideological oversight? A popular ideological oversight? Short sighted, fleeting and down right dangerous? Popularity contests on Supreme Court Justices? Again, remember, in ANY election money will flow both pro and con. The outcome usually reflects the biggest wallet.

Is that really where we want our judicial system?

The founders didn't make everything subject to the whims of the electorate for a reason. They wanted this government to last a while and a future requires the kind of longer term view than the Popular Ideological Oversight Popularity Contest route would produce.

Edited by AZPaul3, : wannid 2


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by anglagard, posted 10-31-2020 9:25 PM anglagard has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5840
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 104 of 200 (883055)
11-02-2020 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Tangle
11-01-2020 6:15 AM


Does the fact that the Judges of SCOTUS are appointed by politicians actually mean that they will follow their political bias rather than their sworn legal duty?

See my Message 92

I wonder if this left:right balance and appointments to SCOTUS is as critical as it feels from the outside?

Expectations we have of a justice is that he/she/it will exhibit what the profession regards as a high degree of judicial temperament. Deep respect for the law, its processes and procedures including a respect for precedence and starry decisis which are the same thing but when it came up in my brain those electrons, having a natural affinity for those in the computer, the meme just kinda flowed down my arms.

Judicial TemperamentTM is what the American Bar Association, or at least the 15 member committee that does this thing, sees or not when it considers law stuff, past writings opinions and the like that they would rate as "well qualified" specifically for a SCOTUS position. Yeah, they have committees of raters for a number of Fed judgeships. They say they don't look to political leanings unless something is glaringly obvious in his/her/thems legal opinions.

Politics will enter into a judicial opinion where the question being asked presents a spread of legally viable solutions. But, at the SCOTUS level, the "social steering" aspect of the law takes on new meaning. That's how this whole Roe-v-Wade thing started.

One case rocked the courts and the society, Griswold v. Connecticut - Wikipedia, when SCOTUS first "recognized" (others would say "invented") a Constitutional Right to Privacy. It pretty quickly evolved into the whole reproductive rights thing (and an ungodly number of other areas of human and civil rights) which led directly to the reasons the court decided Roe v. Wade - Wikipedia as it did and totally pissed off (again) the religious right. They really hate people.

Problem is some/few legal scholars agree with the "invented" crowd. As a matter of law Griswold was “bad” law. It is an amalgamation of expressed individual constitutional rights wrapped into this greater package called the “right to privacy” never mentioned in the Constitution itself and is being used to get religion-disguised-as-government out of trying to rule society which totally pissed off (again) the religious right. They really hate people.

BS on this bad law crap. For this document, its intention, its duty, it is appropriate and necessary law.

For 50 years now the religious right, through the specter of the Republican Party, has played out a long term multi-generational plan to get that view legally changed by the court itself by selecting justices, with or without the ABA rating, with an expressed view similar to their own.

They may be about to succeed. Yeah, it's critical.

Multiply that times all other areas of law and society where there is a left/right spread of opinion. Employer/Employee rights etc. Yeah, it's critical.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Tangle, posted 11-01-2020 6:15 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5840
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 117 of 200 (883070)
11-04-2020 7:59 AM


What the fuck is going on? What the hell kind of nightmare has taken over?

This is not the reality I ordered.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by jar, posted 11-04-2020 8:12 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 125 by ramoss, posted 11-04-2020 1:41 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5840
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 127 of 200 (883080)
11-04-2020 2:29 PM


Lament
I hope Biden wins as it looks he will. At this point I am beyond pissed, disappointed and shocked by what this country just revealed of itself. The right got rid of that Cheeto, correcting a mistake that should never have been made, and expecting to pay dearly for a couple terms as they re-group in a Democrat-led Washington, instead find themselves with a much stronger hand than expected at the behest of the voters.

Whether the Senate goes Democrat or not, and it doesn’t appear it will, we have to acknowledge from this past election that this would be temporary. The Republicans have the power of the public with them.

This humanist was hoping our enlightened political zeitgeist would show itself in these proceedings. Not just Dump Trump but dump the whole religious-conservative Republican agenda. Or, at least make significant gains in both houses so the poison of the right-wing is pruned somewhat at least temporarily.

Not gonna happen.

We are not an enlightened society. Quite the opposite so things appear. We had stepped a bit deeper into the abyss of the fascist right-wing and, from their votes, Mom and Pop America didn't give a fucking shit.

We care more for our conspiracy theories, our bravado, our gods and our guns than we do about each other let alone the broader scope of the whole human community.

We have not advanced. What the people have shown us in this election is that we are a selfish society still chained to mysticism and majik, in love with our own national bravado, and don’t want to be bothered with details about what it takes to be decent citizens of this world.

To the World, I am so sorry.

Don’t wait up for us. We got a few generations yet to go. Pray for us.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Phat, posted 11-04-2020 3:06 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5840
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 152 of 200 (883106)
11-06-2020 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by jar
11-06-2020 9:05 AM


What does this tell us about the political and moral fabric of our society?

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by jar, posted 11-06-2020 9:05 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by jar, posted 11-06-2020 9:30 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5840
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(4)
Message 157 of 200 (883112)
11-06-2020 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by jar
11-06-2020 9:30 AM


What does this tell us about the political and moral fabric of our society?
That in particular the Christian Cult of Ignorance really is pervasive and ubiquitous and that at least one third of the US population is incapable of making decisions based on evidence, reality or morality.

What it means is that the white christan right, AKA the state Republican parties, have political influence beyond their representation in the population. They out-grassrooted the liberals and the moderates and they control the statehouses. Voter law and the details of vote collection are theirs. By reformatting voting and political boundaries, gerrymandering and operationally depressing polling places in opposition neighborhoods they have slowly peddled that influence, state after state, into control of the national Republican party. If there is still rational political thought in a majority of this society it has been successfully suppressed from full political expression. It’s easy to be a red state if only the red areas of the state get to vote.

Unfortunately, as we have seen, the national Republican party is subject to be hijacked by fascist elements. They are usurping the party success their brothers in the white Christian right achieved, there not being much difference in the goals of the two. The organization is already in place. It is effective. Control of a national political party, one of only two politically allowed to have any national affect in this country, is the fascist’s wet dream. The white Christian right and their fascist suitors have made the Republican party dangerous to our democracy.

Locally, we need to vote down the right. We need to vote down the Republicans.

Long term? Education, education, education. And hope to avoid a war.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by jar, posted 11-06-2020 9:30 AM jar has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5840
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 176 of 200 (883135)
11-07-2020 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Tangle
11-07-2020 12:25 PM


So what now, when can you guys sue the Big Orange Git?

The nation and the world are still in danger. The Cheeto is still president until noon Eastern Jan 20.

The new congress will sit on Jan 3 and, if the Senate flips, it can block a lot of Trumpian hate-filled revenge. If not then the present Senate and the next may be willing to just ignore, if not actually aide and abet, in Trump's coming meltdown. As long as its the liberals, the blue states and any country not Israel or Russia, that's getting hurt in Trump's tirade then all's right with the world.

I understand Ol’ Moscow Mitch says he wants to put together an economic relief plan during the rump session by the end of the year. That may give some cover to some republicans trying to hide from the outrage about Trump’s retribution tirade of denial. He will set out to hurt (politically, economically, physically, spiritually, shooting boltz from hiz eyez) not just anyone but everyone he blames for his hurt ego.

He still has all of the executive powers of the president and that includes the military, Justice, Treasury and, and …

If you can not imagine the kinds of personal retribution an organization like the US Government can visit upon its enemies then these next 74 days will be instructive and may very well be deliberately destructive. We know the personality of this psycho. We know the callous disregard he has for anything not-Trump whether people, organizations, cities, countries …

I hate to broach this but the best the people, the country and the world can hope is that there really is a secret cabal of patriots that can be positioned to block the more egregious excesses.

At noon on Jan 20 next, if the republic still stands, if Trump leaves the White House, voluntarily or with help, the most dedicated and powerfully motivated army of lawyers ever assembled in the history of all time and space will descend upon the dishonored and disgraced ex-president. If he hasn't dropped dead from a heart attack due to the stress come February he will be be declaring bankruptcy. It goes down hill for him from there. And he knows it.

Edited by AZPaul3, : spelngs knot gud.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Tangle, posted 11-07-2020 12:25 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5840
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 179 of 200 (883138)
11-07-2020 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Tanypteryx
11-07-2020 6:55 PM


Re: Best Fucking Day in 4 Years
Well, I don't know. There was this day about 2 years ago ... that was just really good. But, yeah this comes in a good second.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by Tanypteryx, posted 11-07-2020 6:55 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5840
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 186 of 200 (883162)
11-08-2020 11:21 PM


Just so those who may think I was being a wee bit negatively pessimistic (Who? Me? Message 176) about the damage that Lame-Brain Cheeto-Duck could inflict upon the universe (or at least our quasi-quadrant of the galaxy) during his rump rule in the next 70-+ days, here is a clarion call from a news power on high to warn as well of the impending Trumpian doom.

Wrecking ball: the damage Trump could do while still president until January

Edited by AZPaul3, : cuz


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5840
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 192 of 200 (883809)
01-12-2021 9:31 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Sarah Bellum
01-12-2021 7:37 PM


... justices aren't supposed to rule on the basis of their political views ...

For the most part you are right that ...

quote:
Justices have enough trouble just reading the laws, reconciling the contradictions, cutting through the confusion of poorly written legislation and trying to apply laws to new situations as they come up.

But there are political, social justice, human integrity and privacy issues bubbling up the Fed Court system since forever.

The invented (some would say "uncovered") right to privacy in the Constitution (which led directly to RoevWade and so many other personal rights) is open to interpretation along ideological lines. There are others.

The temperament of those justices in aggregate will determine if we keep those rights. And it appears we will not.

Supreme Court reinstates restrictions on abortion pill

The political makeup of the court is central to how the court will decide on many social issues.

It is not some side issue to be debated in academia. The court is the central core of how our society will conduct itself. Their ideological leanings are crucial to many of their more significant decisions in the past. The same as it will be in the future.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-12-2021 7:37 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-16-2021 7:54 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5840
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 195 of 200 (883874)
01-16-2021 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Sarah Bellum
01-16-2021 7:54 AM


Dred Scott was decided on the racist views of the law held by society at the time. The court did not legislate but affirmed racist law. Blacks were not citizens and did not have recourse to federal courts. Court ruled with the law at the time. Not legislated. Right but missed major opportunity to legislate and apply equal citizenship to blacks

Korematsu was not legislating by the court but is the court being cowed by the social fears of a society at war. Not legislation. Just wrong decision.

New London was not legislated but was, in keeping with their duty, the court interpreting the language of "public use" and "public purpose". And they had ample SCOTUS precedent for their ruling.

Roe was either the "invention" (legislation) of a right to privacy or was the "discovery" of such a right deep in the language of the constitution. You say tomato ...

Roe v Wade has had a major POSITIVE role in expanding and strengthening individual and group rights to marginalized peoples that are already enjoyed by the privileged white class.

Ideological leanings are part of the landscape. In our human institutions and dealings they cannot be avoided. That is why no one court has a solo say in anything. Not even the Supremes.

This is a reality of the human condition.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-16-2021 7:54 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-21-2021 6:57 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5840
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 196 of 200 (883875)
01-16-2021 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by PaulK
01-16-2021 9:38 AM


It seems to me that the Supreme Court of all courts is badly in need of checks on judge’s bias

That is what the congress is there for.

You know they have, and use, very strong oversight powers on the Federal courts?

They can add/remove/impeach justices, negate almost any ruling with their own legislation and can even order the court to not rule on an issue.

How much more oversite do you want?

Want to overturn a court decision for purely political reasons? Have at it. The remedy is there, though the founders did not make it flim-flam easy to do ... for what should be glaringly obvious reasons.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by PaulK, posted 01-16-2021 9:38 AM PaulK has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5840
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 199 of 200 (884069)
01-21-2021 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Sarah Bellum
01-21-2021 6:57 PM


Dred Scott legislated the repeal of the Missouri Compromise ...

Yeah, declaring the legislation unconstitutional has a way of repealing it. Intentionally.

You are familiar with Marbury v. Madison?

If you don't say (as the court didn't in Korematsu) that the other branches of the government have to live up to the law - fiat justitia ruat caelum - that is changing the law.

In another thread we had a religious gentleman whose twisted logic you emulate quite well.

If you interpret "public purpose" as meaning "for the benefit of a private property developer" (as the court did in Kelo) then you're rewriting the law with a bucket of whiteout and a fat Sharpie.

New London professed the belief that the development, though led by a private concern, benefited the economic growth of the whole town. A great public good and so a great public purpose. The court agreed. And cited ample precedent.

Your sharpie just went to Florida on Marine One.

... such a hornets nest was stirred up that abortion clinics are literally under siege (I found a list of six states that, as of 2019, had but one abortion clinic still open!)

Fīat jūstitia ruat cælum

That issue is not the court's. It is the christians and the republicans. Take your complains to them.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-21-2021 6:57 PM Sarah Bellum has acknowledged this reply

  
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