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Author Topic:   The Trump Post-Presidency
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1839
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 61 of 152 (884109)
01-22-2021 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by AZPaul3
01-22-2021 9:01 PM


Re: The big legal issue I wonder about:
Just curious:

Did you actually read the speech?

I can believe you did, and can believe you did not.

I understand typical human mindsets, so I can easily believe you did.

I am just wondering what the exact mindset is that I am dealing with here.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by AZPaul3, posted 01-22-2021 9:01 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by AZPaul3, posted 01-23-2021 8:27 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2497
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 62 of 152 (884110)
01-22-2021 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by LamarkNewAge
01-22-2021 9:18 PM


Re: The big legal issue I wonder about:
Pretty amusing that Taq, you ( AzPaul), and Tanypteryx used Liz Cheney's impeachment quote as some sort of example of evidence that Trump was guilty of insurrection. See post 17 and the next 10.

You really are a fucking lying sack of shit just like your fucking hero.

I am sorry to have to admit that I was posting on my own ignorance combined with intuition

That's obvious.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-22-2021 9:18 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-22-2021 10:21 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded
 Message 64 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-22-2021 10:24 PM Tanypteryx has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1839
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 63 of 152 (884111)
01-22-2021 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Tanypteryx
01-22-2021 10:13 PM


Re: The big legal issue I wonder about:
What was post 17 then?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-22-2021 10:13 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1839
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 64 of 152 (884112)
01-22-2021 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Tanypteryx
01-22-2021 10:13 PM


Re: The big legal issue I wonder about:
I remember when you and me went over this issue of post 17 (and 21) before.

You said it was nothing you said, and I accepted it AT THE TIME.

But there was something I just noticed:

You clicked on the agreement disc for post 17. Taq posted it but you agreed.Ironic.

So YOU are the dishonest pile of 'xxx

Ironically...

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-22-2021 10:13 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-22-2021 10:39 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2497
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.9


(1)
Message 65 of 152 (884113)
01-22-2021 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by LamarkNewAge
01-22-2021 10:24 PM


Re: The big legal issue I wonder about:
I never quoted Liz Cheney.

And you have no idea why I clicked the cheer button.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-22-2021 10:24 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-22-2021 10:52 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1839
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 66 of 152 (884114)
01-22-2021 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Tanypteryx
01-22-2021 10:39 PM


Re: The big legal issue I wonder about:
My whole point from the start involved my opposition to a political trial, among other things?

Liz Cheney voted for impeachment because she was a major target in Trump's Jan6 call to March.

No Democrats were not a target, just Republicans like her.

For purely political reasons, Cheney voted for impeachment, and her reasons were a case of pure dishonesty (based on the quote I saw, though perhaps there were other reasons)

Democrats were not a target(or they weren't supposed to be the politicians to convince during the march)of the Jan 6 call to march speech , but all House Democrats voted for impeachment (10 Republicans did). Why? Political reasons.

The Jan 6 call to march speech is NOT a reason for any sort of rational impeachment and/or conviction.

It is pure politics.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-22-2021 10:39 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Minnemooseus, posted 01-23-2021 5:08 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded
 Message 68 by vimesey, posted 01-23-2021 6:55 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded
 Message 80 by Percy, posted 01-23-2021 12:34 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3839
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001


(6)
Message 67 of 152 (884115)
01-23-2021 5:08 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by LamarkNewAge
01-22-2021 10:52 PM


Re: The big legal issue I wonder about:
My recollection (and I may be very wrong) is that LamarkNewAge is a butt hurt Bernie baby, angry about the Democratic party in that Bernie was not the candidate, and is thus not now the President.

The Bernie babies think that Bernie is some sort of a miracle worker. Just by his presence as President, all good things will happen

My impression (again, I may be very wrong) is that LamarkNewAge is acting out the "the enemy (Trump, Republicans) of my enemy (Democrats) is my friend" mentality.

No, the Democrats are not (just) politically motivated to impeach Trump. They are motivated to impeach Trump because Trump deserved impeachment.

The ones who are purely politically motivated are the Republicans, who won't impeach Trump because he is part of the Republican party, and sadly seems to control the mentality of the Republican party. They are afraid to resist the stupidity.

Liz Cheney just reached the point of "if Trump isn't going to be loyal to her, why should she remain loyal to him?".

2 years ago (and this past election?), the Republicans who showed the most spine were the ones who did not seek reelection/retired. I call them the "I'd rather quit than fight" branch of the Republican party. Oh yeah, there's that one representitive (good ol' what's his name) who went from Republican to Independent. Heck of a fight there.

Or something like that.

Moose

Edited by Minnemooseus, : Extremely minor tweak.


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable." - John Kenneth Galbraith

It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. - Paul Krugman (as stolen from Chiroptera's signature)

"My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes" - Ronald Reagan (1984)

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-22-2021 10:52 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1245
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 5.4


(4)
Message 68 of 152 (884116)
01-23-2021 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by LamarkNewAge
01-22-2021 10:52 PM


Re: The big legal issue I wonder about:
It is pure politics.

Voting along party lines is pure politics.

Voting against party lines is pure principle.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-22-2021 10:52 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5838
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


(4)
Message 69 of 152 (884117)
01-23-2021 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by LamarkNewAge
01-22-2021 9:23 PM


Re: The big legal issue I wonder about:
Did you actually read the speech?

I not only read every word of the speech as posted by Percy, I streamed it live real-time. Heard/watched every word, every inflection, every nuance of speech you can not get in a transcript.

You can't see the crime because you don't want to see the crime.

Your cheeto is toast.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-22-2021 9:23 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1839
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 70 of 152 (884120)
01-23-2021 10:34 AM


I have an idea. The old critical thinking homework assignment.
Make a case for a position you disagree with.

I am going to ask the posters here to make a case that the Jan 6 speech is not a criminal act.

I can easily find ONE reason for it to be a criminal act: But it would require Al Gore's opinion to carry legal weight.

The Al Gore Standard was not stated until around 2006, if I recall correctly.

He said there was no intermediate step, after a final Supreme Court decision, between the candidate calling an election stolen, and the resulting violent revolution.

So the very act of calling an election "stolen", on Jan 6, the day of the Electoral College vote,, is thus a call for arms.

Thus criminal.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by jar, posted 01-23-2021 10:48 AM LamarkNewAge has responded
 Message 83 by Percy, posted 01-23-2021 12:48 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(4)
Message 71 of 152 (884121)
01-23-2021 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by LamarkNewAge
01-23-2021 10:34 AM


Re: I have an idea. The old critical thinking homework assignment.
You really are an idiot!

The January 6th speech was simply the last example of the same rhetoric and criminal behavior exhibited by Donald Trump since even before he was elected.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-23-2021 10:34 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-23-2021 11:05 AM jar has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1839
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 72 of 152 (884123)
01-23-2021 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by jar
01-23-2021 10:48 AM


Re: I have an idea. The old critical thinking homework assignment.
You know that I am REALLY getting stupid desperate, when the (temporary?) lack of critical thinking - almost an environmental condition - causes me to whip out the old homework assignment.

You beat me to the punch.

Yes:

( You idiot, LNA)

I don't have much hope for humanity.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by jar, posted 01-23-2021 10:48 AM jar has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20105
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


(2)
Message 73 of 152 (884124)
01-23-2021 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by LamarkNewAge
01-22-2021 5:36 PM


Re: Let's all say Trump called for violence. Then refuse to offer any evidence.
LamarkNewAge writes:

Percy, my reading of the immediate context, in your quote, requires me to reach an interpretation that Trump sent people to protest and it was 100% aimed at the Republican congressional members. Trump told the protesters to completely avoid the Democrats.

Your claim that I quote Trump targeting Republicans and not Democrats makes no sense because he never mentions either one, neither in the quote or in any sentence nearby. Given that your post begins in this contrafactual way and then builds off it I can offer no response to most of it. I'll reply to stuff I can make sense of.

When he uses terms like "give our party members the strength", it is a common rhetorical idiom used to describe a massive show of the population backing a cause and it is meant to be something that creates wider popular support ( which a riot and break in would not), or at least an illusion of (in this case)national support, for a position.

This is self-evidently wrong. What Trump actually said was:

quote:
We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.

And if you ask the rioters, they believe they were doing what Trump told them to do. That's why they documented their rioting, because they believed it was sanctioned by Trump and that they were doing nothing wrong. That's why the Proud Boys are so upset, because Trump didn't grant pardons to those arrested for what they believed Trump told them to do.

The 'fighting", "fight", and "fighter" metaphors are so common in a political context, that the words use themselves should automatically be considered to be about a peaceful use of democratic process powers(absent anything in the context that would indicate forceful physical activity against a person or property).It would never be interpreted as an act of illegal physical activity if not for the high-stakes partisan political spin & posturing.

Again, the rioters have posted on social media, told the press, and told law enforcement after their arrest, that they believed they were doing what the president told them to do. Obviously you're making a post facto apologist's interpretation of Trump's words that was not considered by the people who were actually at the rally before marching to the Capitol building.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-22-2021 5:36 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-23-2021 11:16 AM Percy has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1839
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 74 of 152 (884125)
01-23-2021 11:16 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Percy
01-23-2021 11:07 AM


Re: Let's all say Trump called for violence. Then refuse to offer any evidence.
You offered a quote, in your post yesterday, that was very much near the end of his speech.

39 words after your quote ended, he offered a sentence (if not his ultimate sentence, it was his penultimate or propenultimate sentence) that stated his reason for the march.

You had it highlighted in yellow.

It was about who to target. And why.

It fit in perfectly with several other major parts of his speech.

It was about ignoring Democrats and convincing Republicans.

It was an attack on "WEAK" Republicans.

Only 38 minor words separated his closing reasons for the march, AND YOUR LONE QUOTE in yesterday's post. Post 45 or 46. Right?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Percy, posted 01-23-2021 11:07 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Percy, posted 01-23-2021 12:54 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20105
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


(4)
Message 75 of 152 (884127)
01-23-2021 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by LamarkNewAge
01-22-2021 6:27 PM


Re: The big legal issue I wonder about:
LamarkNewAge writes:

His Jan 6 speech could be described as an insurrection ( again, don't take that literally. Lol) call toward, NOT THE CAPITAL, but Republican primary polling booths.

It's "Capitol".

Sticking to the facts, only 20 words of Trump's nearly 11,000 word rally speech mention opposing "weak" Republicans in primaries:

quote:
If they don’t fight, we have to primary the hell out of the ones that don’t fight. You primary them.

He was still in a mode of operation that was devoted to laying groundwork that would be the stage for future GOP civil wars.

If you think that beyond those 20 words I quoted above that Trump's January 6th speech was about future Republican primaries then where are the other words in his speech arguing this?

His Jan 6 speech was actually a Fuck The Non Trump Republicans speech...

Trump's speech was against all who opposed him regardless of party affiliation, but he did correctly conclude that no Democrats would oppose electoral college certification and that they needed to encourage more Republicans to vote against it:

quote:
but I said, ‘Something’s wrong here. Something’s really wrong. Can’t have happened.’ And we fight. We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country any more.
...
So we’re going to, we’re going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we’re going to the Capitol and we’re going to try and give … The Democrats are hopeless. They’re never voting for anything, not even one vote. But we’re going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones, because the strong ones don’t need any of our help, we’re going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.

So let’s walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.


As for possible before-the-fact prognostications about a Jan 6 break in, I admit that I have not one but of awareness of any such thing.

You should probably look into this if you want to contribute knowledgably. The Internet planning for insurrection at the Capitol building was in plain sight, which is why law enforcement is receiving so much criticism for not beefing up security.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-22-2021 6:27 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-23-2021 11:58 AM Percy has responded
 Message 77 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-23-2021 12:05 PM Percy has responded

  
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