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Author | Topic: What Is The Holy Spirit | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 15944 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
In fact, since you bring up church history, lets resume our argument here: Message 7 Lest our audience is confused about the position you take, allow me to remind you.
You claim to be a believer and have the badge to prove it, but you go on to say this:
We all agree that you have read the Bible, so lets go to the Gospel of Mark.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 15944 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
So you claim. Yet you are not the one framing the topic.
Lets look again at Mark 1:10. What is the "Spirit" in this sentence? Where did this Spirit come from? WHO spoke? Edited by Phat, : No reason given. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 15944 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
You can imagine anything that you like. Or rather...that IT likes. Or you can submit your imagination under the discipline of the Holy Spirit. The choice and responsibility are yours.
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 15944 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
I disagree. Lets say that you are doing a science experiment. You may successfully replicate a predicted result many times until you cautiously conclude that a vaccine is safe for human use, for example. Through your eyes you see the results appear numerically on paper. Through followup interviews with subjects and control groups you mine data and check and recheck your results and conclusions.
Now lets take "The Holy Spirit" into the Lab. Not every scientist can simply do this because they dont *know* that such a critter exists...certainly not to the extent that they conclude this awareness...this presence or feeling of peace, wisdom, and "good vibes" towards others can be quantified. How do they know, for example that this awareness...this feeling...this attitude is anything more than gas from a bad burrito from last nights meal? (Through sensing the same presence after a night of fasting, perhaps.) Through feeling unusually generous towards others whom they otherwise may be selfish towards. Through a sense of wisdom to only help and encourage others and not to try and "win" or "judge" or feel superior towards, or anything that you (the control group) may charge to be found in any Buddhist, or Atheist, or Muslim. In summation, my point of contention is with your presentation of logic,, reason, and reality itself. Im not saying you are not right but your perspective and conclusion is not right for me. It is not how I believe and it is not how I understand reality.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 15944 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
![]() There is One God. Even if I threw religion and the Bible away, the belief makes perfect sense. Pantheism is weak and indecisive. Polytheism is ignorant. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 15944 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 15944 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
I believe that Jesus is God...in fact that He is GODS Character. No mere anthropomorphized human created idea, though you may employ such an argument. Does that strike you as funny? Am I doing a disservice to the God in your own head? Did you ask too many questions to settle on that answer? You appear more to be a comparative religions truth seeker who decided early on not to settle on what you would derisively label the Biblical Christian culture of ignorance and fantasy.
Yet it never was about their fantasy. It was never directly their doctrines so much as it was their behavior that irritated you. It may well have been encouragement from parents or Socratic teachers who also did not believe that Jesus was God. What you and every other EvC skeptic have in common is that you do not see evidence and it is this fact alone which keeps you from choosing to believe. Furthermore, the evidence that would initially have convinced you was not signs and wonders. Nor Angels or demons. The evidence which eluded you was the behavior and actions of those who claimed to know Jesus. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 15944 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
I think it must be obvious to an outsider that anyone who truly "had the Spirit or indwelling presence of the Creator of all seen and unseen...as we claim to have, would not be afraid of giving everything up. When EvC challenged me on that, I was finally forced to face my disconnect between what I preached and what I actually did.
As a moderate to conservative leaning person, I still place too much faith in the world system of traditional American values and money as it is and not as how most conservatives wish it were. For better or worse, we can no longer bully the world and as you and I both know, Jesus never did. Christian Nationalism has always been a lie. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 15944 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
You have stated before that His Life was more of a lesson than His death, but I guess what I'm asking is whether He died to his flesh (being human, after all) daily or whether he too was rebellious to His own Father occasionally. Good scripture lesson. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 15944 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
Quit trying to frame the issue the way that you want me to think. You too have been doing that for years. I told you plainly what I believe. If you had a son he quite obviously would be seperate from you. If GOD had a son, the answer may not be as clear. Think, jar. Quit simply trying to frame issues into what you were taught.
Perhaps we should examine the scriptures that pro Trinitarians use and critically evaluate them. Edited by Phat, : No reason given. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 15944 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
I cannot explain to you what the Holy Spirit is to a believer. (and not just any garden variety believer such as a Hindu or a Jew. I am talking Born Again Christians. Not "Christian Nationalists" or Evidenced based Episcopalian Intellectuals who view God as a philosophical concept gleaned from a book written, edited and redacted by humans.
David Diga Hernandez explains the way that I think articulately, (in my opinion) honestly, and goes a long way towards describing how the best of the Born Again Christians think. If he scares you or disgusts you, there is very little else I can say. Listen to his explanation of the Holy Spirit. (and yes, Sid Roth is usually sensationalist and flaky, but this episode was refreshing, in my opinion) And again, it is not 1+1+1. It is 1x1x1. Edited by Phat, : No reason given. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 15944 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
Edited by Phat, : No reason given. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 15944 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
And no, we wont get objective evidence that can be shared by everybody. There may yet come a day when the whole world will undeniably see something, but even then many will deny it. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 15944 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
first of all, how would I present a reasoned argument concerning objectively unconvincing beliefs and experiences?
I can tell you what I have experienced and you can choose whether to trust me or not and may conclude that I am incapable of critical thinking in that regard. You may encourage me to throw certain beliefs away in the name of further thought...but I could no more do it than I could forget that I had a Mother. "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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Phat Member Posts: 15944 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.3 |
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.” “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
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