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Author | Topic: Anti-theist | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Tangle writes: True. I honestly have to consider that and live strongly regardless.
The Jews have been waiting for that to happen longer than the Christians. It's just more self-importance that not only are you chosen personally while billions of others aren't, but also that all this other stuff will happen in YOUR lifetime that hasn't happened in all those years. No one but you fundies care about your stuff. So long as you get on doing whatever you do quietly and don't bother the rest of us, we simply don't care. I know that you believe this and can see why you do believe it. It makes more logical and rational sense. The problem that I have with it is that you treat all religion(s) the same. Religion may be a human construct. Jesus Christ is not.
What will happen is what is happening, your religion will moderate and fade, that's all. It'll gradually die out like it's doing all over the modern world. Tangle writes: I'll give you that. Even if I turned out to be another Loon, I would prefer that rather than for all of us to be tragically wrong. It is a martyr complex. But without the martyrdom, just a part of your self-importance and apocalyptical thinking."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
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Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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quote: It makes sense but more importantly it's measurably and objectively happening and has been for a couple of hundred years.
quote: Says Phat. Talk to a Jew, a Hindu, or other religious zealot and he'll tell you that his god is real not yours.
quote: Live a life in error, just in case eh? To coin a phrase ,"sad".Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8561 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Even if I turned out to be another Loon, I would prefer that rather than for all of us to be tragically wrong. But the bet is more specific than that, Phat. You have chosen not just belief but a very specific belief. Of the millions of gods in the human pantheon what are the chances you have chosen the wrong one? Yes, we know what your catechism says, but so does everyone's. What if you chose wrong even in choosing? Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 4.5 |
Jesus will not come back again
If you had stopped there, you would probably have been right. But, instead, you gave us a paragraph of wishful thinking which will turn out to be mostly wrong.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
LOL
But that is not what you market Phat; read what you post time after time. The CCoI's only product is claiming that 'Jesus is gonna come down and kick ass and take names and everyone but me is gonna get us'n.' That's been a staple marketing tool of the Christian Fear Mongers and Snake-Oil Salesmen for 2000 years. 'Buy the bottle or three today befo'e my wagon is be gone; it's good for whatever ails you." If Jesus returns he will judge and it will be Atheists and Muslims and Satanists and Buddhists and Taoists and Jews that are accepted and damn few if any "True Christians".My Website: My Website
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8561 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
If Jesus returns ... Naw. Not in this thread. Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Jesus Christ is certainly a human construct. He was constructed first by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John (and they weren't all using the same blueprint). He was thoroughly renovated by Paul. And many theologies - e.g. yours - have practically demolished Him. Religion may be a human construct. Jesus Christ is not."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
So you are telling me that He was NOT in the Beginning (as Gods human character) and that by inference God does not exist except as a human creation? If so we need to find you help. I suppose that we wont find much help in an anti-theism thread except perhaps a psychiatrist or two and mental health counseling. Perhaps our gracious host, AZPaul3, has some insight. Or perhaps he himself is the host for something else....
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8561 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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Perhaps our gracious host, AZPaul3, has some insight. Yeah. ringo is right on.
Or perhaps he himself is the host for something else.... See Message 462Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
We've been through that before. John 1:1 does not say that Jesus was the Word. So you are telling me that He was NOT in the Beginning...Please, do the homework. Find anywhere in the rest of John or the whole New Testament where Jesus is referred to as the Word. Phat writes:
That's a whole different construction crew. One conclusion is not necessarily inferred by the other but both are based on the same evidence.
... and that by inference God does not exist except as a human creation? Phat writes:
The drowning man reaches out to a passer-by and says, "Let me help you. Let me pull you in."
If so we need to find you help. Phat writes:
Now you're just being silly. The one who believes in leprechauns is more likely to need counselling than the one who doesn't. I suppose that we wont find much help in an anti-theism thread except perhaps a psychiatrist or two and mental health counseling."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8561 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Phat writes: ... and that by inference God does not exist except as a human creation? That's a whole different construction crew. One conclusion is not necessarily inferred by the other but both are based on the same evidence. So what’s missing that would cause you to treat god in the same way you treat jesus? Or is there some additional element here that prevents their both being treated alike?Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Which leads to several questions.
John 1:1 does not say that Jesus was the Word.Please, do the homework. Find anywhere in the rest of John or the whole New Testament where Jesus is referred to as the Word. Did God have any form? Consider Deut 4:15 writes: This suggests to me that those sitting around the fire surely did not see the fire as God...but they did hear a voice. Idolatry of any idol(a carved image...literally a carved imagination) was expressly forbidden. Other religions never shared this trait. They all carved their own little deities. You saw no form of any kind the day the LORD spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Im sure that AZ Paul3 has many adornments through his humble abode. And we wont even count the Penthouse special full of all sorts of imagined objects of devotion! "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
AZ writes: Its a bit like treating a glass of water the same way that you would treat a Typhoon. Or treating an individual thought the way you would treat the whole brain/mind, were you contemplating the many qualities. Jesus is the same size as us....we can relate to a fellow human just as we can relate to ourselves. If The Borg or Q showed up one day and we had a brief opportunity, we most certainly would not talk to them the same way that we would a neighbor. So what’s missing that would cause you to treat god in the same way you treat jesus? Or is there some additional element here that prevents their both being treated alike? Jesus is Gods character. The Mediator. The Go-Between. Yet Trinitarians insist there is no redundancy."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: That people did not see a form on one occasion is a very weak argument. ConsiderExodus 33:20-23 20 But, he said, you cannot see my face; for no one shall see me and live. 21 And the Lord continued, See, there is a place by me where you shall stand on the rock; 22 and while my glory passes by I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and I will cover you with my hand until I have passed by; 23 then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back; but my face shall not be seen.
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8561 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
Its a bit like treating a glass of water the same way that you would treat a Typhoon. How can that be if they are the same? Is jesus not god? Is god not jesus. Are they the same or are they not?Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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