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Author Topic:   Conversations with God
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 121 of 530 (884696)
03-03-2021 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by ringo
03-02-2021 11:42 AM


Re: Charismatic Chaos Revisited
And your assumption is contradicted by the existence of other religions, which all make the same assumptions about their own gods.
Just as you once told me that I dont get to have my own private definition of "evidence"...you dont get to assert that everyone gets their own god. TThere is only One God. (or none, were you right) There is no umpteen gazillion. Just because you dont see it and concluded it a myth gives you no room to assume that your conclusion should be adopted by everyone. You claim facts but I see no way to provide them. And absence of evidence never suggests evidence of ab sense.
And for the record...I insist that my beliefs are the right way because of my experiences. You insist that yours are right based only on tour deductive logic. WWhich is no default conclusion.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killo
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by ringo, posted 03-02-2021 11:42 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by DrJones*, posted 03-03-2021 7:31 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 123 by ringo, posted 03-04-2021 11:25 AM Phat has replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 122 of 530 (884701)
03-03-2021 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Phat
03-03-2021 4:00 PM


Re: Charismatic Chaos Revisited
There is no umpteen gazillion.
Prove it, Odin and Thor and Loki and Hela et al. disagree with you.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Phat, posted 03-03-2021 4:00 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 123 of 530 (884709)
03-04-2021 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by Phat
03-03-2021 4:00 PM


Re: Charismatic Chaos Revisited
Phat writes:
Just as you once told me that I dont get to have my own private definition of "evidence"...you dont get to assert that everyone gets their own god.
It's not an assertion. It's a conclusion based on the facts. Everyone DOES get their own god. That's why there are so many of them.
Phat writes:
There is only One God.
Sez you. The Hindus disagree. The Romans disagreed. The Greeks disagreed. The Egyptians disagreed. Etc.
Phat writes:
Just because you dont see it and concluded it a myth...
I concluded it's a myth for the same reasons that you concluded leprechauns are a myth.
Phat writes:
... gives you no room to assume that your conclusion should be adopted by everyone.
Everyone can reach the same conclusion for themselves. I don't need to tell them what to conclude.
And AGAIN, YOU have reached the same conclusion about leprechauns, for the same reasons. You have no basis for reaching a different conclusion about gods.
Phat writes:
You claim facts but I see no way to provide them.
If you can't provide facts, you can't reasonably make a conclusion.
Phat writes:
And absence of evidence never suggests evidence of ab sense.
Take the word "never" out of there. When there is no evidence to support leprechauns, YOU conclude absence.
Phat writes:
I insist that my beliefs are the right way because of my experiences.
As I have pointed out before, your interpretation of your experiences is wrong.
Phat writes:
You insist that yours are right based only on tour deductive logic.
As I have also pointed out before, my experiences are the same as yours or similar. It's your interpretation that's wrong. You have no basis for your conclusions except for presuppositions based on your beliefs. Your "reasoning" is circular.
I have had experiences that can not be explained. So guess what - I don't explain them. I don't know what caused them - and neither do you.
Phat writes:
Which is no default conclusion.
Of course it is.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Phat, posted 03-03-2021 4:00 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Phat, posted 03-05-2021 2:37 AM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 124 of 530 (884718)
03-05-2021 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by ringo
03-04-2021 11:25 AM


Re: Charismatic Chaos Revisited
Phat writes:
Just as you once told me that I don't get to have my own private definition of "evidence"...you don't get to assert that everyone gets their own god.
ringo writes:
It's not an assertion. It's a conclusion based on the facts. Everyone DOES get their own god. That's why there are so many of them.
Thats only based on your assumption/conclusion that God is strictly a made-up character and that people choose the character which they adapt.
Phat writes:
There is only One God.
Sez you. The Hindus disagree. The Romans disagreed. The Greeks disagreed. The Egyptians disagreed. Etc.
Irrelevant. God chose me long before I even had the capability to choose Him. Tangle may have a dog in this hunt by asserting that religion and "gods" are entirely cultural, but I am unconvinced by this typical atheist/humanist argument for several reasons.(which you can ask me later)
ringo writes:
I concluded it's a myth for the same reasons that you concluded leprechauns are a myth.
Oh stop with the leprechauns. We all (by a large majority) agree that Leprechauns were a cultural myth, as is bigfoot as is Loch Ness. Likely we could throw Santa Claus in there without much disagreement. As for the seriousness of a chosen religion and acceptance of a Deity, we would have much more push-back in regards to Allah vs Yahweh/Elohim/God the Father and Jesus vs gods that people take seriously. Hindus have a dog in this hunt as may the ancient Romans, though I dont know why you are so afraid to proclaim the beliefs of another culture as WRONG. The Apostle Paul certainly was not.
ringo writes:
Everyone can reach the same conclusion for themselves. I don't need to tell them what to conclude.
What are you suggesting? That we all will,after all, arrive at the same conclusion? I hardly think so, though perhaps it would be notable.
ringo writes:
And AGAIN, YOU have reached the same conclusion about leprechauns, for the same reasons. You have no basis for reaching a different conclusion about gods.
As I explained earlier, we all may or may not agree on what are cultural myths and what are actual deities. You embarrass yourself by suggesting that Leprechauns are anywhere near on par with Jesus Christ or Allah Most Merciful. Then again, it appears to be your chosen argument.
ringo writes:
If you can't provide facts, you can't reasonably make a conclusion.
Phat writes:
And absence of evidence never suggests evidence of absence.
Take the word "never" out of there. When there is no evidence to support leprechauns, YOU conclude absence.
I conclude that though many claims of evidence are questionable and that many should be rejected out right, I do NOT concluse that all claims of personal healings, more than coincidental manifestations, and signs and wonders experienced by large groups of people in the mainstream religions should all simply be rejected because ringo of Saskatchewan personally concluded it all a load of crap and then has the gall to suggest that he was right and everyone else was wrong., To wit: [qs]
ringo writes:
As I have pointed out before, your interpretation of your experiences is wrong.
Phat writes:
You insist that yours are right based only on your deductive logic.
ringo writes:
As I have also pointed out before, my experiences are the same as yours or similar. It's your interpretation that's wrong. You have no basis for your conclusions except for presuppositions based on your beliefs. Your "reasoning" is circular.
I have had experiences that can not be explained. So guess what - I don't explain them. I don't know what caused them - and neither do you.
My presuppositions were based on voices that I and others heard that sounded like chipmunks and which literally caused my hair on my arms and legs to stand on end. To this day,27 years later, the 4 of us present would tell the same basic story. There were countless times where a particular scripture that I would be studying was repeated back to me from laymen and Pastors alike that same day. I suppose I could call it coincidence though it happened too often for that.
In addition, Isaiah Saldivar,Alexander Pagami, Vlad Savchuck and other supernatural revivalists have yet to show me that they are in any way dishonest, lying, or making stuff up. For the record, I am aware that any Pastor can choose the dark side and I freely admit that any Christian can turn out to be evil, selfish, or a bad witness for their faith. I am not looking for perfect teachers or perfect humans. I am looking for an absolute truth vs a Relativistic truth. I am unimpressed with Spinozas god.
In essence, I am trying to present an argument to you and the peanut gallery. I suspect, however, that you all will reach different conclusions that I do/did. You all are largely the same. You don't accept the God marketed....you equate Christianity with Right Wing Authoritarianism, You conflate Christian Believers with Biblical Creationists and you all preach the idea that god is simply a character in a book. So why do I even bother hanging around here?
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killo
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by ringo, posted 03-04-2021 11:25 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by ringo, posted 03-05-2021 11:43 AM Phat has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 125 of 530 (884720)
03-05-2021 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Phat
03-05-2021 2:37 AM


Re: Charismatic Chaos Revisited
Phat writes:
Thats only based on your assumption/conclusion that God is strictly a made-up character...
You prove that conclusion every day. You've thrown out the Bible, which is the only basis for your God (Jesus in particular). Everything you believe about your God is made up in your head or somebody else's.
Phat writes:
God chose me long before I even had the capability to choose Him.
Nonsense. If you had been born in India, you'd claim that Vishnu chose you. If you had been born a thousand years ago, you'd claim that Odin chose you.
Phat writes:
We all (by a large majority) agree that Leprechauns were a cultural myth, as is bigfoot as is Loch Ness.
It's not a vote. Reality does not require majority assent.
Phat writes:
... I dont know why you are so afraid to proclaim the beliefs of another culture as WRONG.
I'm not. The Hindus', Romans', etc. beliefs are as wrong as yours.
Phat writes:
The Apostle Paul certainly was not.
The Apostle Paul was certainly wrong about a lot of things.
Phat writes:
What are you suggesting? That we all will,after all, arrive at the same conclusion?
Yes.
You're assuming that there is a "correct" conclusion. If the question is, "What is the best flavour of ice cream?" you'll get a lot of different opinions. But the honest conclusion is that it's a matter of personal taste and there is no "right answer".
The same applies to the question of gods. There is no right answer.
Phat writes:
You embarrass yourself by suggesting that Leprechauns are anywhere near on par with Jesus Christ or Allah
Not at all. You embarrass yourself by never telling us what the difference is. Your only argument seems to be the fallacy of popularity. In which case, you lose anyway because your perverted vision of Jesus Christ is by no means the most popular version of God.
Phat writes:
I do NOT concluse that all claims of personal healings, more than coincidental manifestations, and signs and wonders experienced by large groups of people in the mainstream religions should all simply be rejected because ringo of Saskatchewan personally concluded it all a load of crap...
Neither does ringo of Saskatchewan. It's not a personal conclusion. It's an objective conclusion.
Phat writes:
... and then has the gall to suggest that he was right and everyone else was wrong.
Now you're just being silly. I don't suggest that everyone else is wrong. Even YOU agree with me that most of the beliefs about gods are wrong.
Phat writes:
My presuppositions were based on voices that I and others heard...
No, your presuppositions were based on belief in the Christian God and belief in other spooks including demons.
Phat writes:
... that sounded like chipmunks and which literally caused my hair on my arms and legs to stand on end.
I have heard scary things too. You are wrong in thinking you know the cause of those noises.
Phat writes:
To this day,27 years later, the 4 of us present would tell the same basic story.
I don't believe it. Four eyewitness accounts are unlikely to agree five minutes after the event, much less 27 years later.
Phat writes:
There were countless times where a particular scripture that I would be studying was repeated back to me from laymen and Pastors alike that same day. I suppose I could call it coincidence though it happened too often for that.
Your mistake there is in thinking, "Not coincidence, therefore the God that I have been told about since I was born." Think of a few other possibilities before you rubber-stamp your confirmation bias.
Phat writes:
In addition, Isaiah Saldivar,Alexander Pagami, Vlad Savchuck and other supernatural revivalists have yet to show me that they are in any way dishonest, lying, or making stuff up.
Well, YOU'RE dishonest about them. You won't discuss them here, so we can't point out any discrepancies that you might have missed.
Phat writes:
... I freely admit that any Christian can turn out to be evil, selfish, or a bad witness for their faith. I am not looking for perfect teachers or perfect humans.
I'm not interested in their human imperfections either. I'm only interested in the wrong things that they teach. But you refuse to discuss that.
Phat writes:
I am looking for an absolute truth vs a Relativistic truth.
You could look for a cheap way to turn base metals into gold. Doesn't mean there is one to find.
Phat writes:
So why do I even bother hanging around here?
Because deep down you know there's something to what people ae telling you?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Phat, posted 03-05-2021 2:37 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Phat, posted 03-05-2021 3:53 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 126 of 530 (884725)
03-05-2021 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by ringo
03-05-2021 11:43 AM


Re: Charismatic Chaos Revisited
And so we discuss ad nauseum.
Phat writes:
So why do I even bother hanging around here?
ringo writes:
Because deep down you know there's something to what people ae telling you?
There is a lot that I learn, though it is difficult to change my preconceived bias. I did not simply fall for some carny barker in a tent somewhee.
Nonsense. Look at what you believe: Everything is made up in ...somebodies head... That is one of the flaws in your thinking which led you to atheism. You fell for too many doctrines of demons. But of course I'll never convince you. Even if I sold all that I had and went and split it with homeless people you would never change your beliefs. You might think that I finally respected Jesus, but you would still think of it all as characters in a book.
ringo writes:
If you had been born in India, you'd claim that Vishnu chose you. If you had been born a thousand years ago, you'd claim that Odin chose you.
Its time we exposed this PRATT for what it is. people dont simply choose cultural objects and local icons to believe in. And if they do, they are more likely to choose idols and demons than they are to choose the real deal.
ringo writes:
Reality does not require majority assent.
Sin and idolatry are far more popular than obedience, sacrifice, and letting it all go. You may have a reason for accusing me of ignoring what Jesus said, but if so you can level that accusation at the church-at-large. Which you may have done. Which come to think of it is one main reason you abandoned belief because it made no sense to you. Yet you failed to realize the signs that we are in a war. And godless humanistic socialism is a rather attractive idol...it seems to work. I say look closer. God is missing.
ringo writes:
The Hindus', Romans', etc. beliefs are as wrong as yours.
And yours. We are all wrong. None are righteous.
ringo writes:
The Apostle Paul was certainly wrong about a lot of things.
Prove it. Name 4 of them.
ringo writes:
You're assuming that there is a "correct" conclusion. If the question is, "What is the best flavour of ice cream?" you'll get a lot of different opinions. But the honest conclusion is that it's a matter of personal taste and there is no "right answer".
Moral relativism is a convenient copout. It has limited value. Absolute truth suffered due to the rise of Right ing Authoritarianism, which hijacked the purpose and goal.
ringo writes:
You embarrass yourself by never telling us what the difference is. Your only argument seems to be the fallacy of popularity. In which case, you lose anyway because your perverted vision of Jesus Christ is by no means the most popular version of God.
I disagree. I am quite mainstream.
ringo writes:
It's not a personal conclusion. It's an objective conclusion.
Oh I get your argument. I simply disagree. My objective conclusion is that there is a Creator. You whine for evidence and refuse to consider the objectivity.
Phat writes:
My presuppositions were based on voices that I and others heard...
ringo writes:
No, your presuppositions were based on belief in the Christian God and belief in other spooks including demons.
I have heard scary things too. You are wrong in thinking you know the cause of those noises.
Phat writes:
To this day,27 years later, the 4 of us present would tell the same basic story.
ringo writes:
I don't believe it. Four eyewitness accounts are unlikely to agree five minutes after the event, much less 27 years later. Your mistake there is in thinking, "Not coincidence, therefore the God that I have been told about since I was born." Think of a few other possibilities before you rubber-stamp your confirmation bias.
The problem is, as a potential Bride of God, you stand at the altar forever waiting for evidence before even considering marriage. I took the plunge. And it ain't koolaid neither.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killo
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by ringo, posted 03-05-2021 11:43 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by AZPaul3, posted 03-05-2021 11:10 PM Phat has replied
 Message 128 by AZPaul3, posted 03-05-2021 11:16 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 132 by ringo, posted 03-06-2021 11:32 AM Phat has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 127 of 530 (884731)
03-05-2021 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Phat
03-05-2021 3:53 PM


Re: Charismatic Chaos Revisited
ringo writes:
The Apostle Paul was certainly wrong about a lot of things.
Prove it. Name 4 of them.
Moe, Larry, Curley ...
people dont simply choose cultural objects and local icons to believe in. And if they do, they are more likely to choose idols and demons than they are to choose the real deal.
Is that why Islamabad so over run with evangelical Christian churches? Can’t find a decent mosque anywhere anymore.
Moral relativism is a convenient copout. It has limited value.
We’re talking this universe, right? This universe where absolutely nothing is absolute? Even zero?
Below Absolute Zero: Negative Temperatures Explained | PhysicsCentral
So tell me what is so limiting about this moral relativism feature of the universe. Seems way more flexible and way less limiting than a strict rigid absolute.
The more we look at it we find this universe is relative everywhere in every way. So why not in our subjective emotional moral responses. Especially since this universe seems to so abhor absolutes. Relative morality is all reality seems to allow.
What god said those had to be absolute? Bring him here. Have him explain himself.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Phat, posted 03-05-2021 3:53 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Phat, posted 03-06-2021 9:52 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 128 of 530 (884732)
03-05-2021 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Phat
03-05-2021 3:53 PM


Re: Charismatic Chaos Revisited
duplicate post
adjust headspace and timing
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Phat, posted 03-05-2021 3:53 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 129 of 530 (884737)
03-06-2021 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by AZPaul3
03-05-2021 11:10 PM


Liberal Censorship. The Civil War Is Real
In response to your thought provoking response, I've decided to start a new Book Nook topic where I can explain some of the ideas in a recent book that I have read which I by and large agree with and will attempt to articulate. The book, The Coming Civil War was written by Tom Kawczynski, who appears to be an evangelical conservative (were I to categorize him) but whose arguments resonated with my own rationale and argumentative process. I realize that I am strongly encouraged to use my own words in our discussions, but keep in mind that my beliefs are and shall likely always be absolute and not relativistic wishy washyness.
Here is the authors partial bio at Amazon (more on them in a minute! )
quote:
Tom Kawczynski tells the everyman story of what is happening in history and politics today. Controversial yet accessible, his books cover the questions people whisper about but are not allowed to discuss openly. Identity politics, civil strife, and the darker side of politics, control, and finance are common themes .
After successfully working in both the private sector and as a civil servant, Tom was fired without cause from his post of Town Manager in Jackman, Maine in a story that made national headlines in his assertions that Islam is not compatible with Western Civilization, that Whites deserve the same rights and consideration as all other people, and against Marxist subversion.
A new focus asks how we fight the spiritual battle by reclaiming our Christian faith from all who introduce false doctrine and division, and the ideas no one else will touch feature prominently.

Now about Amazon and Bezos The Clown:
Amazon Begins Censoring Books
Last week, Amazon banned When Harry Became Sally. The book, which was written by Ryan T. Anderson, a researcher for the conservative Heritage Foundation, is a bestseller. Or, at least, it was a bestseller.
Amazon purged the book because it explores some of the problems that transgender individuals face. It asks questions about gender identity, what it means to transition, and the recent increase in the number of individuals identifying as transgender. Anderson’s book is filled with detailed research and in no way advocates for violence or abuse of transgender people, yet Amazon pulled it from the shelves after three years of selling the book.
If a single book store removed Anderson’s book, it wouldn’t be a huge issue. But when Amazon removes a book, the book can become impossible for some people to access. Amazon controls a monopolistic 83 percent of the book marketplace in the U.S. It also controls more than three-quarters of the ebook marketplace. If you live in America and read books on a kindle, there’s a good chance Anderson’s book is unreachable.
Amazon, which has been credited with the demise of local bookstores, now has the power to censor books. Anderson warned that this censorship could have a chilling effect on future authors because they cannot afford to write about a controversial issue that could be determined problematic by Amazon because their book sales will tank. He also explained that Amazon provided no recourse for his publisher to get back on the platform.
I saw this first in the local newspaper and was dumbstruck. Though I have called myself a political moderate (in the quest for a fair and balanced outlook on reality) I must say that I side with the conservatives on this one. This whole idea of relativism as a world view is wrong on so many levels. Granted I can see a few examples where it is right, but my jury is definitely still out!
Listen to my boy Ben Shapiro as he lets reality be known:
You cant argue against his absolute truth logic. Moral relativism, while free to profess, is not a default standard.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killo
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by AZPaul3, posted 03-05-2021 11:10 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by PaulK, posted 03-06-2021 10:31 AM Phat has replied
 Message 131 by jar, posted 03-06-2021 10:34 AM Phat has replied
 Message 137 by nwr, posted 03-06-2021 12:46 PM Phat has replied
 Message 146 by AZPaul3, posted 03-06-2021 3:59 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 130 of 530 (884738)
03-06-2021 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Phat
03-06-2021 9:52 AM


Re: Liberal Censorship. The Civil War Is Real
And it looks like the Civil War will be over White Supremacy.
Just looking at the material you quote about the author gives us cause for concern:

After successfully working in both the private sector and as a civil servant, Tom was fired without cause from his post of Town Manager in Jackman, Maine in a story that made national headlines in his assertions that Islam is not compatible with Western Civilization, that Whites deserve the same rights and consideration as all other people, and against Marxist subversion.
So he’s an Islamophobe, quite possibly a White Supremacist and likes accusing anyone even vaguely to the left of being a communist. Not exactly a trustworthy source.
Did you even think of searching to find out more?
CBS
... His website states that its purpose is "defending the people and culture of New England."
The website includes essays that make the case for a voluntary separation of races, and identifies Kawczynski as "steward for New Albion."
Racial segregation has been long a tool of White Supremacists, famously in the American South, and South Africa. Not to mention that the idea that it could be voluntary is absurd.
The Independent has a similar story.
Fox News agrees that his website supports voluntary racial segregation and attacks Islam.
Indeed it goes further than the other two by saying that the New Albion project:
...wants to preserve the white majority of northern New England
And the ADL says he wants that majority to be a staggering 95%. And any non-white who doesn’t agree will be cast out
For the remaining 5% he says, While those who work may find their place, those who agitate against us must be cast out. Obviously, no such solution could work under the framework of a democratic government, so Kawczynski leaves many details unexplained.
The ADL also quotes him as saying:
You don't have to hate to see cold hard statistics and realize in a significant way that the average black in America has less intellectual aptitude. So, unless you perpetually give them free advantages, they would fall behind. I'm pretty sure they know this which is why they're perpetually angry. Tom Kawczynski, GAB, November 2017
Apparently he’s now selling quack COVID cures. And still promoting his white ethnostate ideas.
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Phat, posted 03-06-2021 9:52 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Phat, posted 03-06-2021 12:01 PM PaulK has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 131 of 530 (884739)
03-06-2021 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Phat
03-06-2021 9:52 AM


Re: Liberal Censorship. The Civil War Is Real
LOL
Liberal censorship.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Phat, posted 03-06-2021 9:52 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Phat, posted 03-06-2021 12:06 PM jar has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 132 of 530 (884740)
03-06-2021 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Phat
03-05-2021 3:53 PM


Re: Charismatic Chaos Revisited
Phat writes:
Look at what you believe: Everything is made up in ...somebodies head... That is one of the flaws in your thinking which led you to atheism.
What? You're going to have to explain that.
Phat writes:
You fell for too many doctrines of demons.
Explain that too. I have never fallen for any doctrines of demons.
Phat writes:
Even if I sold all that I had and went and split it with homeless people you would never change your beliefs.
Your refusal to follow Biblical Jesus' instructions is just evidence that your "Jesus" is made up in your head.
Phat writes:
You might think that I finally respected Jesus, but you would still think of it all as characters in a book.
You forget that I respect characters in books. You can learn as much from a character in a book as you can from a carny barker on YouTube.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
If you had been born in India, you'd claim that Vishnu chose you. If you had been born a thousand years ago, you'd claim that Odin chose you.
Its time we exposed this PRATT for what it is.
It's not a PRATT. It has never been refuted.
Phat writes:
people dont simply choose cultural objects and local icons to believe in.
See? There you go, denying. That isn't refuting.
Phat writes:
Yet you failed to realize the signs that we are in a war.
We are definitely not in a war with spooks. There are no "signs" that spooks exist.
Phat writes:
And godless humanistic socialism is a rather attractive idol...it seems to work. I say look closer. God is missing.
And I tell YOU to look closer. Yes, God is missing from my phone and it still works.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
The Hindus', Romans', etc. beliefs are as wrong as yours.
And yours. We are all wrong. None are righteous.
Non suquitur. Being wrong about gods has nothing to do with righteousness.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
The Apostle Paul was certainly wrong about a lot of things.
Prove it. Name 4 of them.
Start a topic.
Phat writes:
Moral relativism is a convenient copout.
Moral relativism is a fact.
Phat writes:
Absolute truth suffered due to the rise of Right ing Authoritarianism, which hijacked the purpose and goal.
"Absolute truth" has always suffered from the fact that every denomination, sect and cult has its own mutually-exclusive "absolute truth".
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
You embarrass yourself by never telling us what the difference is. Your only argument seems to be the fallacy of popularity. In which case, you lose anyway because your perverted vision of Jesus Christ is by no means the most popular version of God.
I disagree. I am quite mainstream.
Rejecting what Jesus said in a "dusty old book" is not mainstream.
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
It's not a personal conclusion. It's an objective conclusion.
Oh I get your argument. I simply disagree.
How can you disagree with an objective conclusion?
Phat writes:
My objective conclusion is that there is a Creator.
Your conclusion is not objective.
Phat writes:
You whine for evidence and refuse to consider the objectivity.
If there is no evidence, how can there be objectivity?
Phat writes:
The problem is, as a potential Bride of God, you stand at the altar forever waiting for evidence before even considering marriage. I took the plunge. And it ain't koolaid neither.
You quoted me and then you didn't respond to what I said.
Try again:
quote:
ringo writes:
I don't believe it. Four eyewitness accounts are unlikely to agree five minutes after the event, much less 27 years later. Your mistake there is in thinking, "Not coincidence, therefore the God that I have been told about since I was born." Think of a few other possibilities before you rubber-stamp your confirmation bias.
Respond to that and keep your rants to yourself.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Phat, posted 03-05-2021 3:53 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Phat, posted 03-06-2021 12:02 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 133 of 530 (884741)
03-06-2021 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by PaulK
03-06-2021 10:31 AM


Re: Liberal Censorship. The Civil War Is Real
well so much for arguing that book!
But I do respect Ben Shapiro and his intelligence. And I also note that several of you here at EvC have a decidedly Left leaning bias. My point is that Conservatism does not automatically equate to evil. Shapiro makes that point real for me very eloquently in his video above.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killo
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by PaulK, posted 03-06-2021 10:31 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by PaulK, posted 03-06-2021 1:13 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 134 of 530 (884742)
03-06-2021 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by ringo
03-06-2021 11:32 AM


Re: Charismatic Chaos Revisited
ringo writes:
Try again:
quote:
ringo writes:
I don't believe it. Four eyewitness accounts are unlikely to agree five minutes after the event, much less 27 years later. Your mistake there is in thinking, "Not coincidence, therefore the God that I have been told about since I was born." Think of a few other possibilities before you rubber-stamp your confirmation bias.
Respond to that and keep your rants to yourself.
My rants are part of my processing. One weeks rant may turn out to be the next weeks epiphany...or not. Ranting is part of the emotional process. Now for my response.
ringo writes:
Four eyewitness accounts are unlikely to agree five minutes after the event, much less 27 years later. Your mistake there is in thinking, "Not coincidence, therefore the God that I have been told about since I was born." Think of a few other possibilities before you rubber-stamp your confirmation bias.
The fact is, our recollections of the event have not changed. I am in touch with two of the other three witnesses. Anyway I wont nitpick. Your problem is that you went out of your way to avoid confirmation bias and ended up confirming the opposite (according to your newly chosen bias). How did you conclude that God did not exist when you once believed He did exist?
Oh lemme guess....you realized that you never heard any audible answers or encouragements from the Deity Himself, right? You probably read a few scholarly articles on the phenomenon of inner voices and of how it was generally depicted among psychotics. If not, do explain. How did God become unreal to you? How did the book become merely a product of humans and not a rhema word confirmed through the Holy Spirit? Matter of fact, how did you willfully and actively choose to deny that the Holy Spirit is real? You yourself claim that you once accepted such beliefs.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killo
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by ringo, posted 03-06-2021 11:32 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by ringo, posted 03-08-2021 11:25 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 135 of 530 (884743)
03-06-2021 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by jar
03-06-2021 10:34 AM


Re: Liberal Censorship. The Civil War Is Real
Well enlightn me then.
I found this:
Censored
My beef is with Bezos. Who in the hell does he think he is?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox
The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.
- Criss Jami, Killo
The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by jar, posted 03-06-2021 10:34 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by jar, posted 03-06-2021 12:13 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 139 by PaulK, posted 03-06-2021 1:23 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 144 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 03-06-2021 3:35 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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