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Author | Topic: Conversations with God | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Bezos is an individual running a business and if that business does not want to sell crap then that business has the right to not sell crap.
You and the rest of the Cult of Ignorance simply have no connection with reality. You simply get you puerile panties in a wad when folk point out that your idols are pouting crap, lies and misinformation and so refuse to make it easy to con the rubes. No one is censoring the current crop of fascists, they are still allowed to publish their books and spew their spiel but they have no right to try to force others to distribute their crap.My Website: My Website
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nwr Member Posts: 6408 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.1 |
Amazon Begins Censoring Books
Amazon made a business decision on how best to maximize their profits. This isn't censorship -- it is capitalism.
I must say that I side with the conservatives on this one. This whole idea of relativism as a world view is wrong on so many levels.
Conservatives are relativists. They deny that, of course. But you only have to watch them to see their relativism at work.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: I don’t. His interview with Andrew Neill ended up with him accusing Neill of being a biased liberal. (Neill is very Conservative, used to be chief editor of the Sunday Times for Murdoch).
quote: I never thought it did. The problem is that plenty of Conservatives aren’t exactly good people. Shapiro isn’t, for one. The radical right who’ve embraced Trump seem pretty evil, though. But they aren’t meaningfully Conservative.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
I don’t think that one business refusing to carry a book amounts to suppressing it. Even one as big as Amazon. And what is your alternative?
quote: The guy who owns the business and can decide that they aren’t going to sell something? Isn’t that something that Conservatives say he should be able to do? Or does that principle suddenly go out of the window when he does something that Conservatives don’t like?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
On a related issue the owners of the Dr Seuss books have decided to take 6 of the less popular titles out of print, citing concerns about the content.
Conservatives naturally cite this as Liberal Censorship - although they often discuss different books that are staying in print (odd that). They are even buying large quantities of the other books, as if giving money to the company that made the decision is some sort of punishment. It’s pretty clear that the Conservative reaction is not very rational or concerned with the truth,
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
nwr writes: Conservatives are relativists. They deny that, of course. But you only have to watch them to see their relativism at work. You get me to think. Or at least to investigate what others say...that's one way that I gain some sort of perspective on the consensus of popular culture and the ideology that is expressed. Now...one thing that EvC has taught me is that things are not always as they seem. So in my search for confirmation (or challenge for) your statement, I found Stephen Law.
Liberals Are Relativists quote:Of course I found several others which agreed more along the lines of my bias, but I compared 5 or 6 sources from the search engine and thought that Laws challenged my bias the most. I don't defend conservatism nor liberalism as much as I defend my belief that God exists, is alive through Jesus Christ, and is not simply some human derived character in a book. My faith is getting more broad based if not stronger. I seriously doubt that I would ever leave it as many did here at EvC. I still cant figure out why you people think the way you do and choose to believe what you do, but I keep plugging away. Edited by Phat, : added features "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Wiki writes: In May 2019, Neil interviewed Ben Shapiro, an American conservative commentator, on Politics Live on BBC Two.[69][70][71][72][73][74] Shapiro was promoting his new book, The Right Side of History, which discusses Judaeo-Christian values and asserts their decline in the United States.[70] Several combative instances during the interview gained viral attention, including Shapiro walking out.[71] Shapiro later apologized for the incident.[70] I'm searching for that interview now. Once I watch it, I may have further comment. Edited by Phat, : as I gather information..."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Earlier, I said Message 141
I still cant figure out why you people think the way you do and choose to believe what you do, but I keep plugging away. While looking at Professor laws blog, I found a response from one of his critics/colleagues (Larry Hamelin) that encapsulated and that may explain how many of you think.
quote: "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
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AnswersInGenitals Member (Idle past 151 days) Posts: 673 Joined:
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Suppose there were a set of children’s picture books and some of the characters in those books had obvious Jewish names and those characters were depicted with unnaturally long noses. Would it be cancel culture for a book store owner to refuse to carry those books? Or might he/she/they just be exercising good business sense in not wanting to insult a part of their customer base?
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2
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The main point you need to understand is that humans are fallible.
That is hardly an anti-Christian idea - in fact most Christians will affirm it. Skepticism, in the sense used by Larry Hamelin and Sim recognises that. Human claims should not be confused with absolute truth. Even our own claims should not be - we absolutely should recognise our own fallibility and take steps to account for it. It is not that there is no absolute truth or even that humans can’t make absolutely true statements. It’s just that very few statements made by humans can be shown to be absolutely true. The main conflict is not over whether there is an absolute truth. It is over human claims to have absolute truth. Should those claims be accepted as absolute truth in the absence of evidence ? Why ?
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8513 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
You cant argue against his absolute truth logic. Moral relativism, while free to profess, is not a default standard. Yeah I can because there is nothing absolute in any of his subjective evaluations. Relative morality is not just the standard it is the only course available to reality. And Phat, why would you hold up this radical religious nazi as your "boy"? Man, please don't tell me you've fallen into fascism. Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
And the most recent essay on Stephen Law’s blog is absolutely relevant.
For the record I hold that female circumcision is wrong, and astrology is bunk. (Morality is a bit fraught and I think it tends to fall between what Laws calls interesting relativism and conceptual relativism. On the other hand, strology would need a lot of watering down to get to a position where it’s sort of defensible)
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8513 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Oh posh.
Just because morality is relative does not mean it is immune to human ideals as the specie's humanism evolves. And on both of these issues the consensus in the human community is that female mutilation is disgustingly barbaric and that astrology is bullshit. We, as a world, will now work to stop the one and marginalize the other. Morality is still relative. The human give-and-take over larger populations determines morality. Maybe coded into law or just social mores. The society, en masse, determines its social morality and determines, en masse, what conduct we will and will not tolerate. And, being separate human societies, these can differ one to another. Where two come together, as the Somalis are finding out, is where one will dominate the other. I make no judgement right or wrong on whether one should dominate or not. It is a fact of the human condition. And as the world community interacts more closely certain moral practices will need to alter at the demand of the whole world. Morality is still relative and we, as a society, will determine how, when, why it will change and ... ... as societies become more intertwined the larger global community will determine what actions are/not moral if your dinky little Somali region wants to join the rest of us as equals. Even our morality is not out of the jungle and like everything else only the fit memes will survive as society, ever and ever larger, evolves its zeitgeist. Where does this eminent philosopher get off on calling differing opinions on morality differing truths? This has nothing to do with the relativity of truth, but the relative perceptions of human actions. What our eminent philosopher is going on about is not truth but one’s personal religious-like zeal for what one perceives as moral. Then they take these perceptions as truths and treat them like mathematical truths, put them through their philosophical gristmill and, lo and behold, contradictions, controversy and existential gnashing of teeth. No, opposing female genital mutilation does not equate to excusing the holocaust any more than natural evolution can excuse the excesses of eugenics. Truth should be reserved to absolute knowledge. But since there isn’t such a thing we have to settle for what we can evidence more or less strongly. The laws of physics are as close as we come to truth and even the strongest of them are tentative. I will respectfully reject the treatment our philosophical friend offers on moral relativism. He is so high up his ivory tower he has lost the reality of the human condition. Philosophers are just so useless. Each and every one of us. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given. Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Seems like you missed the point if the essay.
quote: He doesn’t. In fact you seem closer to that view than he is. If morality is purely decided by social consensus (I say that there is a bit more to it than that) then different societies can have different moral truths.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
We could start with this:
1) Truth-NounWebsters writes: Definition of truth (Entry 1 of 2)1a(1) : the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality (2) : the state of being the case : fact (3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality b : a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true truths of thermodynamics c : the body of true statements and propositions 2a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality b chiefly British : true sense 2 c : fidelity to an original or to a standard 3a : sincerity in action, character, and utterance b archaic : fidelity, constancy 4 capitalized, Christian Science : god in truth : in accordance with fact : actually In regards to this, critics may say that quite obviously the evolving Bibles were written, edited,redacted and used by man. They will assert that there is no evidence in support of a supernatural omnipresent GOD or God or even gods...and demonic as well as angelic entities. I get it. I felt the same way and understand your embrace of the obvious. Those of us who are believers are not simply believers due to our own willful ignorance. We all had a defining salvation experience, however. We all felt a definite change in our inner character. And those of us who bother arguing with you and others have learned that we will not ever convince you. Most of us simply move on to those whom we can convert. (Yes, jar...CONvert.) A few of us, such as myself, keep arguing and honing our own beliefs up against the thought processes and critical thinking of yourself and others. I actually applaud the critical thinking process that you use, though I won't take it as far as many of you do. I will NOT throw God away. I will NOT doubt...and would feel personally ashamed were I to embrace doubt willfully. I do admit that I have doubts appear in my mind at times, but I have chosen to cast vain imaginations down. This is NOT willful ignorance.This IS Willful Belief! AZ can and likely will use the vain imaginations of J.Noble Daggett(Mr.Deity) and his adopted prophet Sam Harris to counter the Apostle Paul and any more whom I will bring in, but you cant have a good topic without Anti. Perhaps I shall call her Auntie Em. Next we can discuss what Pilate asked Jesus: What Is Truth? We may well add the corallary: What are opinions? What are beliefs? Must they all be relative? Is there any such thing as an absolute? And y'all know where I stand on that. You may have told me your thought processes before...I have not researched our past posts together. Yet. Edited by Phat, : J.Noble Daggetts Picture added. Edited by Phat, : No reason given."A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " *** far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.- Dr.John Lennox The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.- Criss Jami, Killo The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him. Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You(1894).
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