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Author Topic:   The Biden Presidency
jar
Member
Posts: 33500
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 91 of 258 (884973)
03-17-2021 5:08 PM


So today our idiot criminal governor says that the kids crossing the border are coming into inhumane conditions.

So the answer is send police that will scare the shit out of the kids instead of addressing ways to create humane conditions.

That IS the crisis; it's not the migrants, it's our states response that is the tragedy and crisis.


My Website: My Website

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20419
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 92 of 258 (884974)
03-17-2021 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by jar
03-17-2021 10:37 AM


Re: Does Stupidity Go With The Job?
jar writes:

First, it's no where near the mess as popularly reported.

From What things are like in the Border Patrol facilities where migrant children are held:

quote:
Children are alternating schedules to make space for one another in confined facilities, some kids haven't seen sunlight in days, and others are taking turns showering, often going days without one.

That's the reality for the thousands of unaccompanied migrant children held up in US Border Patrol custody for days on end, according to case managers, attorneys and Border Patrol agents.


So presumably CNN has been interviewing "case managers, attorneys and Border Patrol agents." I'm trying to understand why the Biden administration is muzzling the Border Patrol? What happened to transparency. I understand that politicians' natural inclination is to control the message, but the optics on this are really bad. In situations like this the administration should ask, "What would Trump do?" then do the opposite.

The article continues:

quote:
Customs and Border Protection is on pace to encounter more individuals on the border than in the last 20 years, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas said Tuesday, adding that the agency is coming across children as young as six and seven years old.

So according to DHS secretary Mayorkas we're on a pace to exceed the highest immigration numbers in 20 years. Mayorkas also said, “We have a very serious challenge, and I don’t think the difficulty of that challenge can be overstated. We also have a plan to address it. We are executing on our plan and we will succeed.”

I don't that I'd characterize the border crisis as a "mess," but certainly available resources are being overwhelmed.

I don't think the Biden administration should do anything to hide the details of the situation. They should be very transparent about the problems while at the same time developing and executing a plan to compassionately and humanely handle it. Giving the appearance of a coverup is the last thing they should do.

Second, the surge is only the inevitable result of four years of intentional mismanagement and the utter stupidity of the Three Stooges in Austin.
...
The issue is that the Three Stooges as well as much of the management at BP/ICE/HS are not willing to treat the situation as an opportunity but rather only as a Law Enforcement issue. Instead of sending medical supplies and testing supplies and support staff they are sending police. Instead of working to set up a cooperative Governmental/NGO operation they are maintaining separate roles.

I think the surge is a natural result of ending Trump's "wait in Mexico" policy, of the hope Biden gave potential immigrants by promising to provide a path to citizenship for the country's current 11 million resident immigrants, of removing the restrictions on child immigrants from certain parts of Central America, and of making clear his belief that even people attempting illegal entry deserve to be treated humanely.

The limit on BP/ICE/HS reporting is really a reasonable position, particularly since those folk have actually been the biggest creator of the problems.

But we can't have it both ways. We can't assert that Trump was the driver of inhumane treatment while he was in office, then later assert that the driving force actually came from the people on the front lines at our borders.

BP/ICE/HS have refused to do testing for anything, TB, Covid or any of the other endemic threats. They have refused to coordinated with private social services or to only cooperate when the cameras are running.

But this isn't the policy of the current administration, and my understanding is that they're committed to fixing this. In fact Mayorkas said today that while some unspecified number of migrants had been released into the US without testing, that situation has been fixed.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by jar, posted 03-17-2021 10:37 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 03-18-2021 7:23 AM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20419
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 93 of 258 (884976)
03-17-2021 7:41 PM


Where are the N95 masks?
Carpenters, painters and wall-boarders still cannot drop into Home Depot to purchase N95 masks important to protecting their lungs while they work, and also the best protection against the novel coronavirus. Why isn't the Biden administration doing everything within its power, including invoking the Defense Production Act, to flood the country with N95 masks?

I can only shake my head at the number of people I see wearing surgical or cloth masks with huge gaps on the sides of the nose and by the cheeks. Or even worse, wearing the mask below their nose, as if their nose didn't connect to the same lungs as their mouth. One good thing about a decent N95 mask is that because it is semi-rigid it is very difficult to wear below below the nose.

Trump hollowed out the government on so many different fronts that subsequent administrations will be working for years to repair the damage, but the Biden administration has an opportunity if they move fast enough, which is to provide sufficient numbers of high quality N95 masks to take us through this critical period until we've achieved sufficient nationwide vaccination.

Speaking of which, resistance to vaccination continues to look like a real problem. I've always thought that TDS (Trump Derangement Syndrome) was misdefined. It should apply to those who have been, and largely continue to be, duped by Trump. It is TDS that causes so many Trump supporters to say they'll reject the vaccine.

There's true irony here. Trump did only one positive thing concerning covid-19, which was to initiate the warp-speed vaccine partnership program with drug companies. But his base cannot shake the dismissive attitude Trump took toward masks as a personal freedom issue. They are applying that same mindset to the vaccine and rejecting the only good thing Trump did against covid-19.

The personal freedom argument against masks makes little sense, but it didn't originate with Trump. The 1918 pandemic also saw protests against masks as a personal freedom issue. It was stupid then and it is stupid now. Masks are no more a personal freedom issue than speed limits, stop lights and driving on the correct side of the road. Hermits can make up their own rules, but anyone living in a society has to make concessions to the greater good, and not spreading disease is definitely for the greater good.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.

Edited by Percy, : Grammar.


Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-17-2021 9:02 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2627
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 94 of 258 (884977)
03-17-2021 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Percy
03-17-2021 7:41 PM


Re: Where are the N95 masks?
The personal freedom argument against masks makes little sense, but it didn't originate with Trump. The 1918 pandemic also saw protests against masks as a personal freedom issue. It was stupid then and it is stupid now. Masks are no more a personal freedom issue than speed limits, stop lights and driving on the correct side of the road. Hermits can make up their own rules, but anyone living in a society has to make concessions to the greater good, and not spreading disease is definitely for the greater good.

Freedom comes with responsibilities.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Percy, posted 03-17-2021 7:41 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33500
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 95 of 258 (884981)
03-18-2021 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by Percy
03-17-2021 7:09 PM


Re: Does Stupidity Go With The Job?
You are still missing the point Percy.

The reports are still getting published.

The gag order is on what the BP/ICE/HS report and frankly they lie.

The cure is not more reports from BP/ICE/HS.

The cure is more facilities, more resources, more support.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Percy, posted 03-17-2021 7:09 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Percy, posted 03-18-2021 12:15 PM jar has responded
 Message 97 by Percy, posted 03-18-2021 12:30 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20419
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 96 of 258 (884986)
03-18-2021 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by jar
03-18-2021 7:23 AM


Re: Does Stupidity Go With The Job?
jar writes:

The gag order is on what the BP/ICE/HS report and frankly they lie.

Are you maybe thinking of different things than what was in the CNN article? Or if there are Border Patrol claims in the CNN article that are untrue, which claims were those? If you don't tell me what you think the Border Patrol is lying about I can't investigate the claims.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 03-18-2021 7:23 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 03-18-2021 7:07 PM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20419
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 97 of 258 (884988)
03-18-2021 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by jar
03-18-2021 7:23 AM


Re: Does Stupidity Go With The Job?
I'm looking around for what information the Border Patrol might have provided the news media that might be false or exaggerated and am having no luck. Border Patrol prevented from talking to media: report from The Hill isn't specific about Border Patrol claims:

quote:
The new media rules were given verbally, not via an official memo, NBC reported. In response some border agents decided to release videos of mass arrests and surges of migrants on their own, without permission, NBC reported.

But that's after the gag order was given. I can't seem to find what lies you might be referring to that could have reasonably caused a gag order. Of course it isn't really a gag order. The Border Patrol is apparently only being asked to follow press rules set back in 2014.

Border agents feel they are under "gag order" from Biden administration from NBC News says that Border Patrol agents were asked to deny requests for "ride-alongs", for information like the number of migrants in custody, and for photos, so presumably they were providing these things before.

If the truth about the situation on the border is being misrepresented then the solution is more transparency, not less.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by jar, posted 03-18-2021 7:23 AM jar has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33500
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 98 of 258 (885005)
03-18-2021 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Percy
03-18-2021 12:15 PM


Re: Does Stupidity Go With The Job?
LOL

Investigate away.

The fact is that there are migrants coming across the border legally and illegally but not in numbers that could not have bee expected or planned for or handled.

For example over the last 5 months slightly more than 10,000 "unaccompanied minors" (and anyone 17 or younger is classed that way) that BP has apprehended. That's an average of 2000 a day.

In the meantime hotels and motels all over the valley have had empty rooms that could have been used to help those unemployed because the rooms were empty and to handle the case load.

But as I said, the issue is that for the last four years the goal has been to make the process as inefficient, cruel and painful as possible.

The gag order is totally irrelevant, the needs are well known and have been well known for years.

This is all going exactly as the Republicans wanted and still want.

The problem is not the migrants but the utter stupidity and callous disregard of the current Texas political structure and the past four years of political structure.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Percy, posted 03-18-2021 12:15 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Percy, posted 03-18-2021 8:13 PM jar has not yet responded
 Message 100 by AZPaul3, posted 03-19-2021 12:20 AM jar has not yet responded
 Message 101 by Sarah Bellum, posted 03-21-2021 4:01 PM jar has not yet responded
 Message 102 by xongsmith, posted 03-21-2021 5:07 PM jar has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20419
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 99 of 258 (885006)
03-18-2021 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by jar
03-18-2021 7:07 PM


Re: Does Stupidity Go With The Job?
jar writes:

LOL

Investigate away.

I think we agree on most things about immigration, but I wasn't able to figure out what lies you were referring to when you said the Border Patrol lies, so I won't be able to check them out unless you describe them.

This matters because if the Border Patrol can't be trusted to tell the truth then I was wrong when I said the gag order was unjustified.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 03-18-2021 7:07 PM jar has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6086
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 100 of 258 (885010)
03-19-2021 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by jar
03-18-2021 7:07 PM


Re: Does Stupidity Go With The Job?
Lies, cover-up or not this gag order does not look good.

I have no doubt the present BP bureaucracy is less than forthcoming on a whole slew of issues but those are issues the media should uncover. Not being able to talk to the agents makes that a bit problematic.

The larger issue is transparency even when some inscrutable sources try to make a political football.

If kids are kept inside for days on end sleeping on the floor then we should know about it. And instead of responding with gag orders Biden and Co should be responding with cruelty charges against the agents and their superiors and their superiors and etc., like that.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 03-18-2021 7:07 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 753
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 101 of 258 (885078)
03-21-2021 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by jar
03-18-2021 7:07 PM


Re: Does Stupidity Go With The Job?
Of course they should have been expected. The whole point of protests about "The Wall" was that a lot of people were being kept out, wasn't it? I mean, if only a handful of people were being victimized by not being allowed to cross the border a few NGOs and charities could have coped with them and we wouldn't have seen the appalling news coverage on either side of the border.

Changing US immigration policy doesn't change the conditions in any third world countries.

In the long run, though, we need to gamble on letting people in. The birthrate of US citizens dropped to 1.7 in 2019. Without an influx of population we'll end up with the problems of the sclerotic Europeans (if we're lucky) or the belligerent, male-biased one-child Chinese (if we're unlucky)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 03-18-2021 7:07 PM jar has not yet responded

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2097
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 102 of 258 (885081)
03-21-2021 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by jar
03-18-2021 7:07 PM


Re: Does Stupidity Go With The Job?
jar wrote:
For example over the last 5 months slightly more than 10,000 "unaccompanied minors" (and anyone 17 or younger is classed that way) that BP has apprehended. That's an average of 2000 a day.

WHOOPSIE, 2000 per month you meant.
just my OCD....


"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."

- xongsmith, 5.7d


This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by jar, posted 03-18-2021 7:07 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by jar, posted 03-21-2021 5:50 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33500
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 103 of 258 (885082)
03-21-2021 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by xongsmith
03-21-2021 5:07 PM


Re: Does Stupidity Go With The Job?
Hey, I'm old.

But yes, per month.

Right now there are about 500 migrant families here in Hidalgo County.

The numbers are certainly manageable IF, and it's a really really really BIG HUGE if; the three stooges in Austin sent food and vaccines and clothing and health care workers and contracted with the empty hotels and motels for housing instead of sending police.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by xongsmith, posted 03-21-2021 5:07 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20419
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 104 of 258 (885083)
03-22-2021 8:51 AM


Excuses For Abuses
The Biden administration is apparently capable of being as abusive and full of excuses about the southern border as the Trump administration. Yesterday in response to a questions from Martha Raddatz of ABC's This Week Department of Homeland Security secretary Alejandro Mayorkas took a declarative man-the-battlements Trump-style approach, saying:

quote:
The message is quite clear: do not come. The border is closed, the border is secure. We are expelling families, we are expelling single adults, under the CDC's authority under Title 42 of the US code because we are in the midst of a pandemic, and that is a public health imperative. We are encouraging children not to come. Now is not the time to come. Do not come. The journey is dangerous. We are building safe, orderly and humane ways to address the needs of vulnerable children. Do not come.

Concerning the viral threat, the current immigrant influx is about 100,000 per month. We're currently providing 2.5 million doses of vaccine per day or 75 million per month. 200,000 doses for 100,000 migrants in a month is .3% of our current rate of supply. We could easily vaccinate every illegal immigrant or asylum seeker. The people we're turning back into Mexico are just as vulnerable to the virus there as in the US, if not more so. Sending migrants back into Mexico is definitely *not* compassionate. The excuse of "We're in the midst of a pandemic" is just that, an excuse. If the Biden administration can't figure out how to be more humane than Trump then they deserve all the criticism they get. When I voted for Biden it wasn't for someone who could magically turn chaos into order but for someone who would deal with chaos with compassion and humanity.

The answer from Mayorkas I would have liked to have heard would have been, "Martha, at this very moment we are already building pandemic-safe facilities as rapidly as possible in order that everyone crossing the border can be housed safely and with their families if traveling together. We're arranging vaccinations and increasing the rate of processing. We'll follow the law and allow everyone who fits the appropriate criteria to remain in the country. Our primary focus will be on keeping our borders safe and secure."

It can't happen soon enough that we stop hearing news reports of illegals dumped wholesale back into Mexico. That's *not* dealing with the problem. That is almost literally just dumping the problem over the wall to make it someone else's problem. And it doesn't work anyway. Many just begin making plans for their next border crossing attempt.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Taq, posted 03-23-2021 6:40 PM Percy has responded

  
Taq
Member (Idle past 40 days)
Posts: 8488
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 105 of 258 (885119)
03-23-2021 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Percy
03-22-2021 8:51 AM


Re: Excuses For Abuses
Percy writes:

Concerning the viral threat, the current immigrant influx is about 100,000 per month. We're currently providing 2.5 million doses of vaccine per day or 75 million per month. 200,000 doses for 100,000 migrants in a month is .3% of our current rate of supply. We could easily vaccinate every illegal immigrant or asylum seeker.

From a logistics standpoint, it would be extremely difficult to administer vaccines that require two doses weeks apart.

The answer from Mayorkas I would have liked to have heard would have been, "Martha, at this very moment we are already building pandemic-safe facilities as rapidly as possible in order that everyone crossing the border can be housed safely and with their families if traveling together. We're arranging vaccinations and increasing the rate of processing. We'll follow the law and allow everyone who fits the appropriate criteria to remain in the country. Our primary focus will be on keeping our borders safe and secure."

Do you think this will encourage even greater numbers to cross the border?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Percy, posted 03-22-2021 8:51 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Percy, posted 03-24-2021 3:40 PM Taq has responded

  
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