Conversations with God

And who makes that determination? Sure. Ok. You got me.We done?If so, who then makes the determination that a moral truth is true?And, other than personal and shared opinions, where does this moral truth come from?

How did it get into your brain?Were you told the do's and don'ts or did these ideas just appear in your consciousness fully formed?I suspect such were the products of acculturation, schooling. I see no other viable vector for moral opinions. That would indicate to me that the moral truth being discussed is not objectively determined (innate to our physically composed brain or from some disembodied reservoir of objective morals pooled somewhere by nature) but is subjectively determined, and is taught as highly prized, highly conserved and vigorously enforced conduct by society.Is objective being interpreted as popular across (most) cultures?We have learned that things operate better for society if, in disagreement, we don't go around shooting people dead in the streets. That is a moral opinion that is strongly taught, conserved and enforced by most societies, but not all. That's about as objective as we seem to get in society. I don't think objectively determined moral memes exist.Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Got it. Thank you.I love the way they go thru every brain lobe and what we know of each cognitive function they think impacts their study.They don't find any moral locus that lights up consistently but when tested the signals are apparently tied strongly to other areas covering cognitive function and emotion.It's like the brain has to be thinking on the issue for the moral circuitry to light up.No hint at what built this moral circuitry, god, or neural plasticity over time.But this covers, as far as I can tell, moral opinions already in the brain. How'd it get there?Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

I'm looking for reality here, PhatUnsupported assertions about gods in holy communion don't count.And, yes, you have it right, without hard evidence (not conjectures, stories, twisted syllogisms) to support the physical structure and operation of god, well, then your god and his influence are non-existent.

No. He can't. If he exists in this universe we would have evidence. Can't be helped. Everything in this universe leaves a churned up wake of matter/energy in its path through space-time. Especially something as heavy-handed, invasive and destructive as your jesus/god/allah thing is supposed to be. Of course they do. Nothing exempts Christians from the requirement of providing evidence. Majik is not acceptable. The standard priest's response of "Because we say so" is not acceptable.Evidence would be acceptable except you haven't got any and that is like really really bad for your position. Sorta fatal, actually. Has god renounced evil? Are we all going to paradise now? If he does this I'll stop throwing evil in his face. Phat, Phat, it's not only WHAT you believe that is bad, sick, evil, and lots of other snarky words, but the fact that you DO believe that is the real poison in the intellect of this species. Imaginary ghosts, demons, devils?Phat, in this day of increasing knowledge and enlightenment have you any idea how twisted and stunted a man's mind has to be to be so stuck in the 1400's?We have entire societies with this disease. Actually, it's a conclusion I drew after researching religion(s), history, psychology and like that.I'm atheist. We don't have priests going around teaching lies about others. That's you guys.

Because the god I talk to, the one spirit I commune with, is the strange one in my head that makes me do stuff ... me.And, yeah, we get off on some fantasy disconnects. You're not the only one disconnected from reality.I just do it in a rational and logically sane way so I can find my way back.

No, it isn't. It's religion. By definition it's not correct. It's sham. Yes! Well said.Except there's no such reserved spot. It's all just kinda a mish-mash in there. Oh Phat, you miss the very essence of humanity. Even the poets and scientists of millennia ago knew the more answers you get the more questions come into existence. It's like majik but it's only intellect not spooks.Way back then, just as today, it was the priests that objected to knowledge.

Yes, I assume there would be evidence because anything and everything we have ever seen in this universe that moves matter/energy leaves a trail. According to our understanding of reality, with 10s of millions of hard science facts, real evidence, in support, this must be so. Physical systems preserve all information. The universe seems to allow for nothing else.If your invasive destructive god did as you say he did it would be written on the heavens. It isn't.You offer nothing to challenge this other than your heartfelt insistence. Throughout history you have made these claims and persecuted anyone who did not bend, got persecuted right back, made war on humanity and got made war on right back. Don't try to hold your bloody religious history as some shield against your own evil.We know you will never submit. Well, we do hold some hope.But that's not the point. The point is the violent insistence you people have that everyone else submit. No. Sez reality. Phat you keep trying to make this a matter of emotion. It's a matter of physics. If you want to say reality is "this" way then show us.We did it. Why can't you?We say reality is this way. And we back it up with evidence observed from reality. You can see it. You can watch it work and know why it works.You give us tall tales of impossible majik impossible to verify impossible to perform and just insist on its veracity.No.The standards of evidence are set. Either meet them or leave the field.And, no, not sez me but sez the consensus of rational humanity. That's what the last 300 years of human enlightenment, fought against by your church, has been all about.The chains have been thrown off. We paid a heavy bloody price to win the right to that standard and it will be the centerpiece of rational human thought from now on. Ahh, yes, the ghost monkey. The evolved simian from Earth that made the universe, all that is, seen and unseen.

No, what that means is that everything that moves in this universe affects lots of other things and leaves a trail.

If you want to say your gods left no evidence at all despite the ham-handed treatment your stories relate then you're back to invoking impossible irrational majik to cover up the damage done.

Evidence of the flud was covered up when the devil went around burying dino bones.

I know that doesn't bother you but it should bother everyone else. You people also invoke impossible irrational majik to justify all the crimes you commit against humanity. Your excuses above are just more of the same.

Based on our experiences with you, your majik is no longer allowed to be used as excuse for anything. Your gods left no mark on this universe because they do not exist. They are bogus apparitions. Conjures of the primitive human mind.

Can you show otherwise without the majik?

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

You seemingly equate us with Christian Nationalists or Jim Jones.

... and the high priests of the tabernacle, any and all the various popes, shamans, Christian warriors all.

I am sorry to burden you in this way (... well ... not ...) but in many of these conversations you are, for me, all the crazies in one embodiment.

You're a Christian. You're a polytheist. You can understand the groupings of many into the one.

So, yah, I do so often address you as the broader demons in my mind.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Maybe a truly demented individual helped along his demented way by belief in a truly loving god with a gun.Poor kid's going to get some help now.

I admit to owning this one.It's a personal incredulity thing. I can't fathom how a properly operating brain capable of functioning in this society could so abandon the obvious physics they use to exist in this universe and submit life decisions instead to old stories and what Fr. Priest used to say. How many rosaries can fit on the edge of a piece of texas toast burnt with the image of jesus.If the default operation of a rational mind is one that understands, appreciates and uses the reality presented to them, then one that allows for the delusions of ghosts and gods, as real entities that have some gossamer existence in the 5th dimension somewhere is not operating at peak rational capacity. They gotta screw loose.That is mentally unstable. If more of us agree to it then, yah, we do. You did it for a couple millennia. Now it's our turn.Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

That's it. You're off my baby-eating dinner list.That's the thing you should never do. No. Don't believe in that realm.That's the first step in your salvation. Stop believing in that realm.

Phat, I know you went through an experience and I take your word for what you physically heard, saw, whatever.
I also know that ringo is right. The emotional content of your experience did not have some spooky supernatural element.Some confluence of physical phenomena conspired (most probably at random) to produce the events you witnessed.
People don’t like coincidence but it is a real physical phenomenon. A confluence of events that appears to be something other than what it is.Your state of mind, however, is a totally different matter. What I hear is that you were primed for the moment by the lead-up to the event in which you and your fellows sunk into earnest prayer and heartfelt emotion. Humans have a history of psychological delusions when in such an environment, especially since there was more than one in the scene and that psychological reinforcement from fellow travelers has been known to be overpowering.Still, it was long ago and studying the event from this distance is worthless. The actual facts of the physicality of the event are lost forever. What’s left for you is the emotion of the moment. How the strength of that emotion came to be is quite human and is known by examples.What you felt was emotionally real, no doubt. But as ringo said your interpretation of those events is irrational. God did not come down tap you on the shoulder and say “Here I am.” Your prior emotional/mental state, led by both irrational thinking and peer pressure in the moment, was most probably the cause of your emotional epiphany. The universe acts that way. It does not act the way you believe.