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Author | Topic: Conversations with God | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Jesus said that it's what you must do to be saved. That's not a "suggestion". Ananias and Sapphira were killed for not doing it. Jesus suggested we share. They want it mandated."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Yes, believers in Allah, believers in Brahman, believers in YHWH but not Jesus, etc.
keep in mind that society is made up of a large number of believers. Phat writes:
The biggest battle is between one group of your cult and another group of the same cult in the church across the street. This battle has been going on...."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Nope.
They were killed for lying. Not withholding.quote: There's no distinction in the text between the act AND lying about the act. Your argument is the equivalent of saying that murder is okay but lying about murder is really, really bad. That's just crazy.
Phat writes:
That's the only place the character exists. I don't have the luxury of rejecting the parts that I don't like and making up my own version like you do.
You limit your understanding to the character in the book you read about. Phat writes:
Crawling inside your head would not provide any enlightenment about communion. If I was inside your head, I could only see what you think is happening. You already tell us what you think is happening. I've actually communed with Him. And you cant say one thing against that since you cant crawl inside my head. But what you think is wrong."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Do you see what a bad argument that is? You might as well say that everybody sitting in your chair agrees with you. ... there are nearly as many Christians in N.America as there are skeptics and other types of worshipers. You hardly have a majority edge here. That's Trump's argument: "I'm ahead. Stop counting." That isn't how majorities work."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Thank you. I have other good qualities too.
You are an obvious and willful skeptic. Phat writes:
You're talking about belief in belief. That's a bridge too far. Whether or not you actually believe that its possible that the character of god is around today, you don't place much value on betting on it. And betting is generally a bad idea. You bet on your made-up god and Vishnu turns out to be the real one."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Same way we know that the flat-earth idea is wrong or that creationism is wrong - by testing them.
ringo writes:
How could you possible know. But what you think is wrong. Phat writes:
How is it cocky or arrogant to point out that YOU are not infallible?
You claim not to be infallible but you are certainly cocky and arrogant. Phat writes:
Nonsense. When a tornado wrecks a house, they don't have to present a plan for the new one before they tear down what's left of the old one. We can recognize junk even if we don't have anything to replace it with. And of course, in the case of religion, we don't need to replace it at all.
You cant say that a whole belief system is wrong unless you make a better case. Phat writes:
Yup. I lump all rotten foods into one category: compost.
In fact, you show that you don't by lumping all religions in the same category. Phat writes:
There you go again, claiming to be infallible. The other religions are wrong but yours is right.
Newsflash: Many of them are WRONG. Phat writes:
You can't know and believe. You only believe. So does the Muslim and the Raelian. And the four-year-old who believes in Santa. You have never been able to distinguish your belief from any of theirs.
I simply know and believe.... Phat writes:
We can easily test them. Do their claims match reality? Yours doesn't even match your own holy book. Show me how we would even test all of the various religions to see if a clear winner exists? But why must there be a "winner"? Why do we even have to test who can flap his arms to the moon fastest?"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
You might as well. You scoff at evidence and even thinking. If you "believe" in a round earth, it's most likely a religious belief rather than a scientific conclusion.
For the record, I don't believe in Flat Earth. Phat writes:
Same way as we test anything else. Your claim that there "can not" be evidence of God has no basis. It's just a convenient cop-out.
But how can (or could) you test God? Phat writes:
Same way we test whether Napoleon existed.
How can or could you test whether Jesus existed... Phat writes:
If you think he should be treated differently, the onus is on you to provide the reasoning and evidence why he should.
... and why if so, He should be treated no differently than any other human? Phat writes:
You remind me of the guy on Evolution Fairy Tale who called me a "Skeptic!" with a sneer. He might as well have been calling me an asshole. At best I see a gallery of skeptics. "Gallery of skeptics" is a compliment. Most of us here would be glad to be included in that gallery, I think. It doesn't need to get any better than that.
Phat writes:
Because you do. You claim that your interpretation of your "experiences" can't possibly be wrong.
And why do you insist I claim infallibility? Phat writes:
Rationality implies that you have reasons but you claim you don't need reasons to believe. Belief is not rational.
All that I claim is rationality within the context of my experience. Phat writes:
On the contrary, the fact that many other people (Mormons, Raelians, etc.) have contradictory claims indicates that somebody's claims must be wrong.
And the fact that many people claim the same thing gives me a reasonable assurance that I am not crazy or delusional. Phat writes:
It's not an 'accusation". It's an observation based on the facts.
Only you and your colleagues make that accusation. Phat writes:
But that's exactly what you do. You throw out Zeus and Thor. You only preserve your one favorite eggshell.
Personally, I would be careful before so casually tossing God out with the eggshells. Phat writes:
Do that then. Ask yourself why you have need for one eggshell and not the others. I would ask myself why I had no need for the product. Of course there are millions of products in the world that you don't need. The real question is whether you need an ivory back-scratcher at all.
Phat writes:
And I have never said you should. But it certainly makes more sense to consider the explanations that could happen.
I'm not simply going to doubt my personal experience due to some idea that it "can't happen"... Phat writes:
Well, it does. Rational science (the only kind of science we have) does provide rational explanations for experiences like yours. But you irrationally choose to reject them.
... or that rational science shows otherwise. Phat writes:
As I have told you, I have had similar experiences - but I don't jump to the conclusion of demons.
First, a lot of people have had similar experience. Phat writes:
You really don't. Remember the story i told you about the thief/non-thief in the black/blue/red coat? What your mind perceived is not an accurate depiction of what your senses sensed - and what you remember is not an accurate record of what your mind perceived. Second, I know what I have experienced. A fellow named Edward de Bono proposed a demonstration of how memory works: 1. Make some jello in a shallow pan. 2. Set one end of the pan on a book. 3. Drip hot watter at the high end and watch it trickle down to the low end. Guess what? The water will find the channels that are already there and deepen them - i. e. what's already in your memory will be reinforced by everything new that enters it. The more often you remember something, the stronger the memory becomes - but it might not be an accurate memory at all.
Phat writes:
And I keep telling you, I'm so set on it because it matches reality. In reality, you are not infallible. Your pre-conceived ideas, based on your religious beliefs, do not trump evidence.
... for now I wont challenge your hypothesis...i'm just asking why you are so set on it. Phat writes:
Why would a mathematician know anything about how the mind works? Finally, there are many scientists such as Dr.John Lennox who are also believers. And what about the scientists from other religions who disagree with your interpretation?
Phat writes:
You need to ask yourself why you think I do.
You need to ask yourself why you have such a zeal to attempt to falsify belief... Phat writes:
Why do you think logic has rules? Why do we have a whole list of fallacies? There certainly are right and wrong ways to think. ... and also why you think that there is only one proper way to think, reason, and conclude."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
robertleva writes:
Got your marshmallows ready? The enemy is not even a spec of dust before Jesus Christ and the Holy Father. And he will burn in the pit of fire for eternity. Edited by ringo, : Corrected attribution in quote."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
robertleva writes:
The condescension is strong in this one. I see you in there and I deny you. You will never have me. My faith is in Jesus Christ. Edited by ringo, : Spoelling."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
robertleva writes:
It wasn't a question.
Same answer. robertleva writes:
What makes you think I (or my Infernal Master) would want you? You won't have me."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
robertleva writes:
You seem determined to get off on the wrong foot with me. Calling somebody a liar and an enemy is not the way to make friends. You'll go a lot farther by pointing out WHY you think something is a lie. My faith teaches about the lies of the enemy and how he deceives as many as will allow it."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
I take full credit for all of the demons who post through this account - all for one and one for all.
Although it COULD be that he is addressing your demon. Phat writes:
Remember my story sbout the 1972 election? You should, I've told it often enough: the American people chose a smart crook over an honest fool. I would give him a bit more time before writing him off as an insincere critic. So whether robertleva is sincerely wrong or insincerely wrong doesn't much matter to me.
Phat writes:
I have three real brothers and one late brother. The honor is reserved for them. He calls me "brother" and thats more than you ever did."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
robertleva writes:
@ringo: we are just looping now, I urge you to just stop altogether.quote:I don't stop. robertleva writes:
You're revealing more about yourself than you are about me.
I see into you with the eyes of a believer, whether you like it or not. robertleva writes:
I'm more peaceful (and loving) now than I was when I was a Christian. I pray for the love and peace of Jesus to fill your heart."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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robertleva writes:
There is a story in the Bible (I am not able to quote chapter verse off the top of my head) where Jesus tells his apostles that if you give the message and someone refuses to listen you simply wipe your feet at their door and move on.quote: "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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ringo Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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robertleva writes:
Sixteen years. Thats only about 1000 posts per year, about three per day, not very different from your own posting rate.
But then I see 15000 post count ppl like you and ringo here. Why? robertleva writes:
I don't have any enemies. It's too bad that you do.
The only reason you post in here is to do the work of the enemy. robertleva writes:
You don't seem very joyful. I will not surrender my joy...."I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing
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