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Author Topic:   Anti-theist
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 209 of 895 (885007)
03-18-2021 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Phat
03-18-2021 1:24 PM


Re: Mr.Deity Only Understands Gods in Literature
First off, you are trying to define the God I worship and know (or think I know) in MY head.
If your god stayed in your head no one would ever have had a problem. You let your god loose on the world to war against other gods and against humanity.
Yet you have already judged this God to be invasive and destructive.
It's your bible. They are your stories. You present him to be invasive and destructive.
If those stories were actual then there would be evidence of massive disruptions over Egypt, Sinai, all over the Levant, let alone the flud stuff worldwide. That trick with the sun standing still while your god killed yet another city would have disrupted gravity fields from here to Jupiter. And the Genesis accounts are exceptionally invasive as well as wrong and that is not even adding in fiat creation, talking snakes, and DaFall.
Gods beaming their spirits or the spirits of demons directly into your head?
We aren't stupid, Phat. The evidence should be there. It isn't.
Now, you invoke majik to solve the problem. Physically impossible feats to restabilize the thermodynamic and gravitational balance of earth and a large portion of our solar system.
When you insist on majik as your answer you lose the battle because that turns right around to the problem of evil again.
With all this majik, able to do anything, everything...
He was there hovering around watching every time they closed and locked the shower doors at Auschwitz. He saw this, up close and personal, multiple times a day, for years. And with all his power and all his love he did nothing. The greatest anguish and suffering a person can know forced upon millions well within reach of his holy mercy and he does nothing.
It really is easy to explain why. He isn't there. In fact, he just isn't. Neither are any of his brethren. Problem of evil solved.
Back to evidence. Without some reasonable physical evidence that a thing is, that thing is only a conjure of mind. A conjure of mind awaiting evidence of its existence. Your gods are conjures of primitive superstitious minds. There won't be any evidence of their existence.
Not one of the stories you base your faith on has any efficacy. Even with all its majik your religion did not do what you say it did, and in using that same majik, it cannot give you what you want from it.
Seems Mister Deity wants to keep his rebellious traits...which is the whole reason that freethinkers reject God even if He DID exist.
Quite the contrary. I, for one, would love to live forever in bliss. If there were a god I could go for one of the nice kind. I'd gladly give thanks and praises to a good god who wasn't torturing anybody or any thing. I could spend eternity journeying the universe to learn what wonders were out there.
Your kind of god, however, is just despicable. Doesn't deserve veneration. But just to humor you, yes, if your god is the real god then I will be in the lake of fire and there is not a god damned thing I can do about it. I will not submit to your monster.
But, there is reality and neither of these is even remotely likely.
I will be as we all must be. I will be entropy in the aether.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 215 of 895 (885068)
03-21-2021 3:12 AM


A Horseman Cometh
We are blessed today, brethren. One of my long time very good friends, the lead spirit for the four horsemen of the apocalypse, has consented to enlighten us today. And, yes, he is a very dear, close and honored friend since I got to see him speak, twice, from about the middle of the auditorium each time. I could see the twinkle in his eyes.
Some call him “intellect” some call him “asshole”. His greatness knows no bounds.
If you do not know the name, Christopher Hitchens, then get thee to a nunnery and pray for your deliverance. Or not.
This is long. If you’re already familiar with the arguments and have other entertainment elsewhere then the only reason to watch this is to see the intellect and the personality at work.
Religion poisons everything.
Why don’t we surrender to wishful thinking?
Religion’s view of morals is insulting.
Religion’s fear of freedom.
Who wants to be a serf in a celestial North Korea?
Mr. Jefferson, build up that wall. church v state
The second half of the vid is Q&A. Interesting and enlightening, as expected.
What would replace religion?
Churchianity in America. Yah, that’s spelled right.
Guantanamo Bay
Nice ending.
Next week, another guest. One of my favorite philosophs.
That is if there aren’t too many changes, and you know there are always changes. This universe appears in constant motion at all scales. Even the Hubble bubble itself, the visible universe we can see everywhere in all directions appears in motion. There is no static frame of reference because your very frame of reference is moving. Spin, spin, vroom, vroom. There is constant change.
But, I’ll try to minimize it and get our guest lined up.
Amen.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 220 of 895 (885075)
03-21-2021 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 219 by Tangle
03-21-2021 10:43 AM


Re: A Horseman Cometh
According to basic christian doctrine Hitch has haunted hell for a decade now.
Wouldn't be surprised if he so pissed off the management up there that god fludded the world with covid to get back at him.
But probably not.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 222 of 895 (885086)
03-22-2021 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Phat
03-22-2021 11:20 AM


Re: A Horseman Cometh
Hell was never created for humans. It is a place where rebellious spirits must end up...
Really. And you know this how? The bible? Dante's Inferno? Your own perceptions?
"Hell was never created for humans." How in lucifer's name could you possibly know that? Emotion? Catechism? Lack of critical thinking? Belief?
But no actual facts.
And let's take this one step further.
Since hell is a figment of a collective superstition, it isn't real. It's fake. A subterfuge. It's what they tell dumb little humans when they want them to be intimidated and pliable.
We in the sane end of the human gene pool know this. So what the hell are you going on about?

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Phat, posted 03-22-2021 11:20 AM Phat has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 227 of 895 (885202)
03-28-2021 3:21 AM


Myths and Legends
Something a little different.
This is Prof. Joseph Campbell of myth and legend fame. His studies on how/why humans have myths, their meanings, but more importantly, their reflecting/shaping of the human psyche on everything from morals to cosmic truths, are legendary and respected the world over.
Three small videos. Less than 15 min total.
The local moral custom
Future mythology – about 2 min in is interesting
It’s all within us



Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

Replies to this message:
 Message 228 by Phat, posted 03-28-2021 6:13 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 233 of 895 (885214)
03-28-2021 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 228 by Phat
03-28-2021 6:13 AM


Re: Myths and Legends
you think that we created all the myths, gods, and cultural stories.
That is what the man said. And no one has any justifiable rational reason to suppose otherwise.
I like Joseph Campbell by the way...he is a polished humanist.
Yes, he is very much the buddha.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Phat, posted 03-28-2021 6:13 AM Phat has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 235 of 895 (885271)
03-31-2021 5:25 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by Phat
03-31-2021 5:03 AM


Re: Myths and Legends
1. God
2. Jesus = God
3. Through Jesus ALL things were created
There is no connection to relativity. How does relativity get negated when it is not a stated part anywhere in your sillygizm?
And even then, what makes you think god/jesus/creating didn't make relative things? or make things relative?
Your syllogism, Phat, is ... bad. Way bad.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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 Message 234 by Phat, posted 03-31-2021 5:03 AM Phat has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 242 of 895 (885302)
04-04-2021 2:58 AM


Smart Folk Do Err
Welcome to our Sundae Service, Brothers and Sisters.
Healthy discussion is fostered by different points of view. We need do no less.
Dr. George Ellis is one of the most prominent cosmologists in the discipline. He co-authored books with Stephen Hawking. The smart just drips out of the video. Ten minutes of wonderful cosmology well worth the listen.
Then …
… the ending is a bother. Big time.
How physical causality within the universe is not exclusive he doesn’t explain. And how he leaps from the supposition of these other causalities to a “something that intended it to be that way” is interesting. Wrong, but interesting.
To hear that part you have to get to the end first. Don't skip ahead or you'll miss out on all the good cosmology stuff.
Philosophy of Cosmology | Closer to Truth

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 245 of 895 (885314)
04-04-2021 4:21 PM


Today is Easter Sundae for most of the christian world.
So as I understand it if Jesus comes out of his tomb and sees his shadow we have another year of guilt to go through.
Has anyone heard what happened this morning? Do we get more guilt or, after 2000 years, is it over?

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by Phat, posted 04-05-2021 1:53 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 248 of 895 (885338)
04-05-2021 5:25 PM


Smart Folk Do Err
On Sunday’s vid with Dr. George Ellis.
We’re talking unfalsifiable speculations on the fine tuning for life in this universe.
There is a reason the cosmologic constants of the universe are as they are. We just don’t know what that reason is.
Dr. Ellis groups the many various speculative theories under these 4 reason categories.
Pure happenstance
Inevitability
High probability among multi-worlds
Designer, Intent.
Why did he make this last one? It doesn’t seem to be of the same logical class as the other three. To me it is cultural not cosmologic. If it wasn’t for religion in human culture the meme from which he created this one would not have existed. Seems more of a personal religious category than a universal cosmologic one. There is no reason for designer/intent to be on that list at all. But if you’re an active believing Quaker you can do that with your cosmology. I think he may be trying to find ways to justify his god’s claim to the universe.
But since it is there … designer/intent is supposed to be a category of possible unfalsifiable speculations for why the cosmologic constants are as they are. And designer/intent is just one of three such categories chuck full of possible unfalsifiable speculations for why the constants are what they are. Convoluted enough?
Anyway, no, cosmology is not making room for gods. Speculations are not actualities.
It may take a thousand years but we will figure out why the constants are as they are and I am assured, by several of my secret powers, it won’t be anything from the designer/intent category.
It won’t be gods. It’s never gods. Gods are kinda like aliens but fake.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 249 of 895 (885395)
04-11-2021 2:29 AM


Sundae Service Sermon
Welcome all to our Sundae Sermon where we not so much sermon as babble.
Today’s babble is courtesy of our long suffering Christian friend, Phat.
Blame him. He started this. See Message 69 (nice)
Bible Basher
All he does is trivialities.
Defending trivialities. Bible de-thumpers using trivialities to attack. Neither addresses the problems reality presents for the evil of the bible. Trivialities don’t matter. The overall theme, the evil of the Abrahamic tribal war god, the evil that subsumes every book in the tome, should be the subject, well beyond the trivialities of syntax and minor error.
The conclusion your apologist arrives at is that the bible is god’s word because some of the book's boo-boo’s are, he declares, resolved. How blind. Resolve all the little dates and names you want. The problem of its evil remains.
10 Quick reasons you shouldn’t be so quick to write off Christianity
1. Christianity far from being a crutch for the weak grew and continues to spread during times of intense persecution.
Humans in trouble are likely, if the basis of belief is within them, to seek comfort from their misery in their acculturated religion. Your bible thumper gives a couple numbers that I cannot verify.
Regardless, he neglects to recognize that the same motivation to escape life’s hardships happens in every culture with every religion. Christianity is nothing special in this regard. People who are weak in the recognition of reality will gravitate to religion in times of stress. It’s a human thing – not a Christian thing. And most humans are not Christian.
2. Jesus is the most influential person in history.
No. He wasn’t. The political power of the European church made the cultural references to Jesus ubiquitous. If some temporal category change is the evidence then it is the Roman Catholic Church, 500 years into their reign, which influenced the calendar, not your Jesus. And they lied about the reasoning they chose. Dionysius Exiguus - Wikipedia had no details of Jesus’ birth and faked the timeline. So much for divine inspiration and influence.
3 & 4 are classical creationism which was debunked over 100 years ago. No one should be surprised at the thumpers clinging to debunked false claims.
5. The universe had a beginning.
The Kalamata Cosmological Olive Principle.
To say everything that exists has to have had a cause is fine given the evidence reality has shown us. That would include any gods.
Religionists want to exempt their gods from this requirement. That may be allowed in an article of faith but it is not allowed in the halls of logic. Articles of faith have no force on the reality of logic and the exemption of gods to this rule is illogical, false and rejected.
If you invoke the olive principle then if your gods exist they had a cause. Which would mean it is not the ultimate power and is inferior to another. If you insist that your gods did not have a cause then, in accordance with the olive argument they do not exist.
The only thing we know for certain is that the universe exists. The universe had, apparently, what we have called a beginning in the big bang because we do not have any evidence (or reasonable explanation) of what would have preceded this period. The logic of reality tells us there had to have been something prior (if we define time to allow for a prior and if this logic treatment holds inside this unknown realm) but with present knowledge we are unable to say what that something prior was or even if such a thing existed at all. We do not know.
To jump from that extreme level of ignorance to, not just *therefore god* but therefore to the Christian branded offshoot of a god, is the usual illogic of superstitious stupidity - religion.
Further still, if your gods are not caused then whatever reasons you use to justify this applies equally well to the entire universe. If your god needs no causation then neither does the universe.
6. Historical evidence for Jesus’ resurrection.
Myths embedded in a book of myths should be no surprise. Unlike the thumper’s insistence there is no reliable independent evidence this myth is any more or less fairy tale than the rest of the tome. Also, all the science says this course of events is not possible for a complex biological organism that is dead. Invoking majik is not historical. It’s charlatanism.
7. The existence of objective moral values.
The arguments presented are juvenile. Objective morality is not known to exist. All of human history shows the differences in morality to include every depravity, evil, love and compassion humans can do at each other. Even the most basic of moralities we as humans practice (empathy, compassion, etc.), born of the social mores learned from the evolution of our social species, are subjective. Subject to change from social pressures. We know this. We have seen this. Objective morality does not exist. This is objective fact.
8. The fact mercy is at the heart of Christianity.
What bullshit. Christianity is one of the most destructive, blood-letting, murderous, death-cults ever unleashed on the world. We have the history. We have seen its fruits. Christianity is far from merciful. It is known evil.
9. Christianity provides a framework from which science can be practiced.
Again, bullshit. Science is still struggling to get out from under religious restrictions on major areas of research and discovery. Religion in general, Christianity in particular, have a long history of science repression. This fool is blind to this reality and his argument is apparently meant to convince the believing choir not the knowledgeable layman.
10. Christianity speaks to the heart of the human condition.
The human condition envisioned by Christianity is one of subservience to assumed divine revelation as determined by the shamans and the priests. The human condition envisioned by Christianity is a mind imprisoned by creed unwilling to challenge the elders of the church.
To the Christian church humans are born evil and will act evil as a matter of existence. And the evil perpetrated by us humans is non-belief, non-obedience to the dictates of the power priests, independent thought and action not sanctioned by the church. And for this evil you must burn in hell forever. Unless … you bow and empty your wallet.
Christianity is not addressing the human condition, it is still trying to enslave it. Christianity is known evil. Like all religions, there are no redeeming qualities in efforts to enslave the human mind and bend it to its will.
There are no reasons to NOT write off Christianity.
I like this guy on YouTube. He defends the Bible very well.
Of course you do, Phat. You are part of the choir he is talking to. His treatment is all fantasy and articles of faith, insistence on myth and wishful thinking. No reality to any of it to cause you any concerns, Phat.
But, Phat, his arguments are juvenile, debunked decades ago, and wholly unsophisticated and uninspiring. This reads as an awkward child’s excuse for his favorite wet dream and defends nothing very well at all.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Phat, posted 04-11-2021 9:28 AM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 255 by Phat, posted 04-14-2021 9:31 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 251 of 895 (885399)
04-11-2021 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by Phat
04-11-2021 9:28 AM


Re: Sundae Service Sermon
The evil does not come from the Bible. The evil comes from the people.
And the attack on Capitol Hill did not come from Trump either.
True, but the mistake many people make is assuming that all gods are equally relevant or irrelevant.
Since none of them exist in actuality that means that all gods are equally irrelevant.
IF my Jesus was a cultural meme and a product of human thinking, you will win the argument and religion will eventually disappear. Tangle and you can celebrate in a pub somewhere.
Hey, Tangle, it's suds time. Phat's paying.
God is not simply a product of our imagination.
Not only are they imagination, your gods are the product of millennia of the Big Lie perpetrated by generations of charlatans and power priests. Like the safety of cigarettes the Big Lie repeated often can make you believe anything.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Phat, posted 04-11-2021 9:28 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 256 of 895 (885475)
04-14-2021 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 254 by Phat
04-14-2021 8:53 AM


Re: The Bill will get paid
WE will make China and Brazil, etc. pay their fair share.
At the end of the 1940s China wasn't done with a devastating war. Europe, Russia, Japan were destitute and struggling.
We, The USofA, were the only society in full swing - the only industrial power in the world, Phat. And for the next 3 generations WE polluted with abandon and without regard for the warnings being raised. WE, Phat, are responsible for the pollution and greenhouse emissions that are raveging the Earth today.
The United States of America did this. And since then the rest of the world has been playing catch-up with the economic might of America and the modern economic ideal we have set for humanity. This struggle by the have-nots for economic equality is what is now adding to the killing of our future on this world, but, WE set the standard. We set the pace. And we haven't stopped yet.
The lion's share of that bill belongs to us.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by Phat, posted 04-14-2021 8:53 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 258 of 895 (885478)
04-14-2021 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by Phat
04-14-2021 9:31 AM


Re: Sundae Service Sermon
And what authority, force, or motive drives these social pressures? Lets get to the bottom of who you think God would be, should He exist?
Your god does not exist.
In all the facts of the human knowledge base there is NOTHING to justify the supposition that gods exist.
Does that *prove* anything pro or con? No. We don't do proof. We follow the evidence and nowhere in that evidence is there ANY reasoning to suppose a god.
What we do have copious amounts of evidence for is the FACT that your gods are strictly human fantasy.
As for morality? The authority, force, motive that drives it is society. Quite simple.
One of my favorite stories is about a young Syrian émigré in Germany who stopped by a spigot on the side of a building, dropped his pants in public and washed his ass. Shocking. Not allowed in this country. Animals. Society strongly disapproves.
In Syria, however, personal hygiene is prized above the juvenile giggles of seeing a man with his butt being washed. Society not only approves but encourages such actions.
Your god had nothing to do with either moral stance, just like with all morality.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Phat, posted 04-14-2021 9:31 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Phat, posted 04-14-2021 1:41 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 263 of 895 (885489)
04-14-2021 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Phat
04-14-2021 1:41 PM


Re: Sundae Service Sermon
I didnt ask you to disprove "my God". If He in fact does exist, nothing you say will change it.
You asked...
quote:
Lets get to the bottom of who you think God would be, should He exist?
So I answered. It doesn't.
The Coming Civil War is a war between secular humanist ideology deciding what rules society will have and the old school authoritarians who believe in God and trust that as their SOURCE.
Phat, that *war* has been ongoing for centuries now. And over the generations your side has been losing. That will continue into the future.
I have seen the tea leaves. It is so.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
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