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Author Topic:   An Ether-Based Creation Model
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 16 of 581 (885451)
04-13-2021 4:50 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by AZPaul3
04-12-2021 10:52 PM


Happy Ether
Since when are herbs fattening? Unless you mean "getting the munchies"...

And I wonder where Michael MD is? Could he be a cousin of Mike The Wiz?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by AZPaul3, posted 04-12-2021 10:52 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by AZPaul3, posted 04-13-2021 6:02 AM Phat has seen this message

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6735
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 17 of 581 (885452)
04-13-2021 6:02 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Phat
04-13-2021 4:50 AM


Re: Happy Ether
Herb was used because it starts with an h. I was specifying a particular organic compound. Phat, you are so innocent. Please do not change.

Oh, and yes, monchies. I can't keep any of the good stuff in the house, anymore. I just eat it. So now munchies consists of rabbit food and V-8.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Phat, posted 04-13-2021 4:50 AM Phat has seen this message

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 18 of 581 (885453)
04-13-2021 9:25 AM


What is so pitiful is ...
... that so many people in the US are so totally incapable of thinking. We are in really bad shape as long as there is a large percentage of the citizenry that don't immediately break out in hysterical laughter whenever something like the absurdity that is the OP in this thread or any of the marketing of the Christian Biblical Apologists or that can even consider voting for a total con man & womanizer & utter total complete failure like Donald Trump or Greg Abbott or Ken Paxton.

Honestly, I see little hope of the US not becoming a total Fascist Autocracy withing a decade or two at the most.


My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6005
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 19 of 581 (885454)
04-13-2021 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by jar
04-13-2021 9:25 AM


Re: What is so pitiful is ...
... that so many people in the US ...

It is not restricted to people in the US.

Homo sapiens is a flawed species.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by AZPaul3, posted 04-13-2021 11:52 AM nwr has seen this message

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6735
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 20 of 581 (885455)
04-13-2021 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by nwr
04-13-2021 11:06 AM


Re: What is so pitiful is ...
Flawed implies there is some un-flawed ideal for humanity.

I don't see it. We are just human - brilliant and stupid at the same time.

Unfortunately, the latter involves more than half the population.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by nwr, posted 04-13-2021 11:06 AM nwr has seen this message

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by jar, posted 04-13-2021 12:43 PM AZPaul3 has taken no action
 Message 23 by Phat, posted 04-13-2021 2:49 PM AZPaul3 has taken no action

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 21 of 581 (885456)
04-13-2021 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by AZPaul3
04-13-2021 11:52 AM


Re: What is so pitiful is ...
Flaws can be permanent or temporary. The flaw in this case is simply never learning how to think and fortunately that can be treated and temporary.

The problem is that so many US Citizens simply refuse to put in the effort needed to learn how to think.

It's a flaw by desire.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Phat, posted 04-13-2021 3:50 PM jar has replied

  
Michael MD
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: 04-03-2021


Message 22 of 581 (885457)
04-13-2021 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by AZPaul3
04-12-2021 5:04 PM


Re: Stop and smell the aether
You cited Michelson and Morley as evidence in rebuttal of my model claiming an ether exists. The Michelson-Morley Experiment of 1887 (MMX) assumed that any kind of ether would have to behave as a conducting medium for the passage of light beams. MMX used optical refractions to measure how light beams behave in different gravity settings, and found no evidence of ether. Subsequently, other experiments have used similar optical methods, with different modifications (other than varying gravity settings). Physics still holds to MMX as the chief evidence against the existence oi an ether. However, in my Ether Model, the ether had to have arisen first causally,would quite probably be ultimately-rarified, and vanishingly smaller than the photons which transmit visible light beams. Such an ether would not have any inertial interface with the light beams. The ether and the light beams could not interact, With this type of ether, physics would be wrong in dismissing ether on the basis of MMX.

If, as I claim, quantum units were formed by vibrations of elemental ether units aligning and entraining into larger and larger units, and thus becoming "building blocks" of quantum units and atoms, then quantum units could still display evidence of that, thus verifying ,my Ether Model. I would claim that such evidence exists, if one looks closely at quantum entanglement (QE.)

I believe QE represents radiated packets of etheric energy which have the same vibratory pattern. Elemental ether units are the only participants in QE, with the quantum units as a whole being kinetically "walled off" like the cool "arms" of a quiet, purring, ether mechanism.

The dynamics of how quantum units interact involves waves, vectors, and so on, of course, but i claim that quantum units simultaneously retain a subtle ability to interact with the underlying ether, through vibrations. Take a fresh look at QE from this perspective. -The ether is the prime actor in all quantum dynamics. Physics is making a basic error in dismissing the ether.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by AZPaul3, posted 04-12-2021 5:04 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Phat, posted 04-13-2021 2:55 PM Michael MD has taken no action
 Message 26 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-13-2021 4:34 PM Michael MD has replied
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Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 23 of 581 (885458)
04-13-2021 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by AZPaul3
04-13-2021 11:52 AM


Re: What is so pitiful is ...
Well and this all fits in the original sin paradigm that jar scoffs at. Humans need God to make it. AZPaul3 might think that were that so, we would have to create Him, but I think that AZPaul would rather argue that we can and will make it on our own.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by AZPaul3, posted 04-13-2021 11:52 AM AZPaul3 has taken no action

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 24 of 581 (885459)
04-13-2021 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Michael MD
04-13-2021 1:13 PM


Re: Stop and smell the aether
MMD writes:

However, in my Ether Model, the ether had to have arisen first causally,would quite probably be ultimately-rarified, and vanishingly smaller than the photons which transmit visible light beams. Such an ether would not have any inertial interface with the light beams. The ether and the light beams could not interact, With this type of ether, physics would be wrong in dismissing ether on the basis of MMX.

Im just curious where you formulated your model. I realize that you have been talking about it since at least 2013, as I perused the web.

Im just curious is all.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Michael MD, posted 04-13-2021 1:13 PM Michael MD has taken no action

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 25 of 581 (885460)
04-13-2021 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by jar
04-13-2021 12:43 PM


Re: What is so pitiful is ...
You and other critically minded pseudo believers or non believers like to frame this intelligence issue somewhat politically, ironically. Half the people use evidence based logic, reason, and reality (like you! Coincidence?) and the other half are in a giant void of common sense and their beliefs are classified as fantasy. Got it.

I look at it virtually the opposite. Half the people are denying that GOD exists or...if they do, they are relativists who understand that GOD and Jesus are simply symbols and that evidence CLEARLY proves that we make GOD up.

Boy are you guys in for a surprise! Not only that, but when it is proven that humans CANT get along and there are wars over global warming property and resource issues and lo and behold an antichrist type leader actually DOES appear and benignly tries to get the world out of religious thoughts except for humanism as a sort of religion, then maybe we can talk further. Until then, I will think the way I think without worrying how to convince you.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by jar, posted 04-13-2021 12:43 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 04-13-2021 4:39 PM Phat has seen this message
 Message 28 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-13-2021 4:43 PM Phat has replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 26 of 581 (885461)
04-13-2021 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Michael MD
04-13-2021 1:13 PM


Re: Stop and smell the aether
Physics still holds to MMX as the chief evidence against the existence oi an ether.

I may have missed it somewhere but what is your definition of ether?

However, in my Ether Model, the ether had to have arisen first causally,would quite probably be ultimately-rarified, and vanishingly smaller than the photons which transmit visible light beams.

"the ether had to have arisen first causally" What does this mean? And how did you determine it?

"would quite probably be ultimately-rarified" Relative to what? And how did you determine that?

"and vanishingly smaller than the photons which transmit visible light beams" "vanishingly smaller"? Is that your best precision? So are you saying ether is opaque to electromagnetic radiation?

What evidence did you use to determine these characteristics of ether?

Such an ether would not have any inertial interface with the light beams.

What is your definition of inertial interface? Are you saying that ether makes light beams disappear?

The ether and the light beams could not interact, With this type of ether, physics would be wrong in dismissing ether on the basis of MMX.

Ok, how about dismissing ether until evidence is presented?

If, as I claim, quantum units were formed by vibrations of elemental ether units aligning and entraining into larger and larger units

What are quantum units and elemental ether units?

and thus becoming "building blocks" of quantum units and atoms, then quantum units could still display evidence of that, thus verifying ,my Ether Model

OK, I'm assuming you have done the calculations so you know what evidence to look for?

I would claim that such evidence exists, if one looks closely at quantum entanglement (QE.)

OK, now we're making progress, but what precisely is looking closely at quantum entanglement going to show us? Have you performed the experiment?

I believe QE represents radiated packets of etheric energy which have the same vibratory pattern.

What observations did you base this on. What are the units of measure of packets of etheric energy, electron volts or something else?

Elemental ether units are the only participants in QE, with the quantum units as a whole being kinetically "walled off" like the cool "arms" of a quiet, purring, ether mechanism.

What a picturesque description, "like the cool "arms" of a quiet, purring, ether mechanism" and you use of technical terminology is impressive.

The dynamics of how quantum units interact involves waves, vectors, and so on, of course, but i claim that quantum units simultaneously retain a subtle ability to interact with the underlying ether, through vibrations.

What observations lead you to this conclusion?

Take a fresh look at QE from this perspective. -The ether is the prime actor in all quantum dynamics. Physics is making a basic error in dismissing the ether.

I am assuming you have already looked, but for some reason don't want to tell us what you observed or predict what we will observe.

It appears to me that you are sometimes equating subatomic particles as ether and sometimes space/time or the universal gravitational field as ether. You assert characteristics to ether, but in terms that are undefined and unquantified.

Physics will continue to ignore ether until you present specific evidence of its existence. Physicists would love it if you have evidence and would jump at the chance to study it.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Michael MD, posted 04-13-2021 1:13 PM Michael MD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Michael MD, posted 04-14-2021 10:44 PM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 127 by Michael MD, posted 05-16-2021 3:25 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 27 of 581 (885462)
04-13-2021 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Phat
04-13-2021 3:50 PM


Re: What is so pitiful is ...
Phat writes:

Until then, I will think the way I think without worrying how to convince you.

Not true Phat.

You and so many others either choose not to think or refuse to learn how to think.

It's not political but pitiful.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Phat, posted 04-13-2021 3:50 PM Phat has seen this message

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 28 of 581 (885463)
04-13-2021 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Phat
04-13-2021 3:50 PM


Re: What is so pitiful is ...
What the fuck does any of this have to do with ether?

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Phat, posted 04-13-2021 3:50 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Phat, posted 04-14-2021 10:15 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17171
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 29 of 581 (885464)
04-13-2021 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by jar
04-13-2021 9:25 AM


Re: What is so pitiful is ...
The most pitiful thing I see here is that a proponent of an “ether theory” seems to have no idea what the ether was meant to be.

The ether was proposed as the medium through which light waves propagated. The idea that it can’t interact with light is absurd.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 04-13-2021 9:25 AM jar has taken no action

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6735
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 30 of 581 (885465)
04-13-2021 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Michael MD
04-13-2021 1:13 PM


Re: Stop and smell the aether
You cited Michelson and Morley as evidence in rebuttal of my model claiming an ether exists.

No, I didn't. Please re-read.

What I said was you guys need to show the aether exists at all, in whatever flavor suits your speculations, by experiment. I am very familiar with MMX as one such attempt. Now it's your turn.

Do the experiments. Show it exists.

Physics still holds to MMX as the chief evidence against the existence oi an ether.

So change that if you can. If not then abandon your conjecture.

the ether had to have arisen first causally

Duh, yeah. How? What cause? You leave much too much unexplained.

would quite probably be ultimately-rarified

Ultimately-rarified means it ceases to exits. I don't think you are using that concept correctly.

quantum units were formed by vibrations of elemental ether units aligning and entraining into larger and larger units,

Quantum units. Define. Ether units. Define.

Formed by vibrations of elemental ether units aligning and entraining into larger and larger units? How? What is the mechanism?

But, so what? You end up with a fluff piece of undefined aether units, whatever those are.

then quantum units could still display evidence of that

How? What are the collider boys looking for? How will they know these undefined quantum units of undefined aether units?

I would claim that such evidence exists, if one looks closely at quantum entanglement (QE.)

You do realize entanglement is one of the major elephants in the quantum bedroom, yes? That whole area is being studied by more than just a "close look".

What do you think they should find they already have not seen?

The dynamics of how quantum units interact involves waves, vectors, and so on, of course, but i claim that quantum units simultaneously retain a subtle ability to interact with the underlying ether, through vibrations.

You claim this? Based on what?

Is this just your wet dream or do you have any actual data or math to lend any credence to this fantasy?

Physics is making a basic error in dismissing the ether.

No. Physics is just fine. You just haven't shown with any efficacy that there is anything in this aether business for us to study.

Mike, this sounds so much like the usual crackpot stuff. Bad terminology, misconceptions of known effects, mis-understandings of known concepts, undefined variables and secret majik mechanisms.

This is not good, Mike. You are failing.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Michael MD, posted 04-13-2021 1:13 PM Michael MD has taken no action

  
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