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Author Topic:   Belief Versus The Scientific Method
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 89 of 513 (885413)
04-11-2021 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Phat
04-11-2021 3:51 PM


Re: Reality Phat. Try Reality.
Phat writes:
cant understand how you can be a believer who is ok with the idea that the God you believe in is unlikely. This is what I mean when I said that you worked around that by redefining what it means to be a Christian.
And so you simply continue to avoid addressing anything anyone says to you.
And I did not redefine what it means to be a Christian since I am a registered member of a recognized Christian sect.
Try reality Phat.
What I have said is that there is no such thing as the "Christian God" and that EVERY God or god that has EVER been discussed is simply a creation of a human imagination.
I am a Christian and believe that there actually is a GOD, the creator of all that is, seen and unseen. That's not some "Christian God".

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Phat, posted 04-11-2021 3:51 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 93 of 513 (885419)
04-12-2021 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Phat
04-12-2021 12:56 AM


Re: Reality Phat. Try Reality.
Phat writes:
jar writes:
What does the symbol "PRATT" actually mean?
Points refuted a thousand times. It is easier to do with Biblical Creationists than it is to do against believers. The supernatural, if it exists, cannot be tested and verified objectively. There is, however, many reports attributing verification of such events, even if subjectively and individually. And perhaps it was meant to be that way. Despite what every secularist assumes, not everybody will be convinced.
jar writes:
Next what does the symbol "God as I understand Her" actually mean?
It means that the conception that I have of who and what God hould be and do is accepted beyond a reasonable doubt.
What does the symbol "the Christian God" actually mean?
Jesus called Him Father. The Creator of all seen an unseen is assumed by believers(in Christ) to be the same God.
Look at what you wrote.
You actually provided a definition for the first symbol but instead of just stopping you went one and refuted the definition given and supported the fact that the symbol is just a human creation.
Look at the sentence that followed the definition.
Then look at your response to the next two symbols where you admit that in both cases the symbol simply represents what the user thinks it means. The last two symbols are exactly like "apple". For one person it is a red fruit, another it is yellow, another it is multicolored, another it is sweet, another it is tart, another it is soft, another it is crisp, another a computer, another it is tiny while another it is large.
That is exactly like all of the God & gods ever discussed.
Look at the Bible.
The God of Genesis 1 is totally different than the God of Genesis 2 & 3 or the God of Exodus or the God described by Jesus in Luke.
The God of the Old Testament and of the glorious Qur'an never has a son except where the authors of the New Testament stories imagined that He did.
You worship the "God" that you imagine. If you stop at the point where your definition is "the creator of all, seen and unseen" you at least can have a symbol that can be defined. But you don't stop there and insist on adding attributes, often mutually exclusive attributes.
That would be fine as long as you were also conscious of the fact that what you have done is create a symbol of your own imagination.

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 Message 90 by Phat, posted 04-12-2021 12:56 AM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 94 of 513 (885420)
04-12-2021 6:53 AM
Reply to: Message 92 by dwise1
04-12-2021 2:59 AM


Re: Reality Phat. Try Reality.
Sure; please always spell things out.
Who knows who might read it.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 100 of 513 (885657)
04-21-2021 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by Phat
04-21-2021 2:21 PM


Luke 4 yet again Phat
But read beyond where the carny conmen stop.
quote:
25 I assure you that there were many widows in Israel in Elijah’s time, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and there was a severe famine throughout the land. 26 Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon. 27 And there were many in Israel with leprosy in the time of Elisha the prophet, yet not one of them was cleansed—only Naaman the Syrian.”
The Jews of Jesus day assumed that this mysterious "God" whom we speak of would allowed them to know.
Jesus pointed out that they assumed too much.
You commit the same silly error; you assume the God you create actually talks jess to those gathered in your synagogue.
The pitiful apologists always stop at verse 24 and so totally miss the actual meaning of the passage.
You're so vain
You probably think this song is about you
You're so vain (so vain)
I bet you think this song is about you
Don't you don't you don't you?
You're so vain
You probably think this song is about you
Edited by jar, : fix quote box

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by Phat, posted 04-21-2021 2:21 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Phat, posted 04-22-2021 3:21 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 106 of 513 (885679)
04-22-2021 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Phat
04-22-2021 9:07 AM


Basics Phat, basics
Phat writes:
To start with, I will first move that this God should be known also as Jesus. Any objections?
There are three basic Masoretic religions; Judaism, Christianity & Islam. All three claim to worship the same God, and all three base their beliefs on the same masoretic texts. In all three there is a character Jesus but in only one of the three is Jesus considered divine. And in the one religion where Jesus is considered divine I cannot get anyone to explain how it is possible for Jesus to be divine and the belief to be monotheistic.
In fact by the very symbols you have posted Jesus by definition in Christianity is God but is NOT God the Father or God the Holy Ghost. So Christianity is a Monotheistic religion with three separate individual Gods; the third of which was only created several hundred years after Jesus died.
If you want to claim to be a Christian at least admit what basic Christian doctrine actually says.
And if you are honest, laugh at how silly it all really is.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Phat, posted 04-22-2021 9:07 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by AZPaul3, posted 04-22-2021 6:06 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 108 of 513 (885685)
04-22-2021 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by AZPaul3
04-22-2021 6:06 PM


Re: Basics Phat, basics
Cute except that the Christian Dogma categorically denies that what is seen are three different essences or attributes but rather separate and unique individuals that are both the same and not the same.
What you describe is called Modalism.
BUT, it does keep the apologists well paid.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by AZPaul3, posted 04-22-2021 6:06 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by AZPaul3, posted 04-22-2021 7:11 PM jar has not replied
 Message 110 by dwise1, posted 04-22-2021 9:36 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 121 of 513 (885705)
04-23-2021 7:03 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by dwise1
04-22-2021 11:45 PM


Re: Analogies and Anthologies
1984 Norma Crane Eddie Albert Studio One 1953
Eddie Albert was really Winston Smith

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 150 of 513 (890402)
01-05-2022 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by dwise1
01-05-2022 4:43 PM


Re: belief in the method
What the Christian Cult of Ignorance insists on ignoring is that science is based not on belief but rather on doubt. It is doubt that requires science to independently test observations and to use a variety of tests to see if an assumption holds true.
Belief plays no place or function in science just as source is far less important than content.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by drlove, posted 01-05-2022 4:59 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 159 of 513 (890411)
01-05-2022 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by drlove
01-05-2022 4:59 PM


Re: belief in the method
drl writes:
Is that what you believe?
No, it is the conclusion based on all the evidence. Only the Christian Cult of Ignorance willfully denies that reality.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by drlove, posted 01-05-2022 4:59 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by drlove, posted 01-05-2022 5:02 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 164 of 513 (890416)
01-05-2022 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by drlove
01-05-2022 5:02 PM


Re: belief in the method
No, I did not make anything up.
The Christian Cult of Ignorance is incapable of even comprehending what is evidence.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by drlove, posted 01-05-2022 5:02 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by drlove, posted 01-05-2022 5:06 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 167 of 513 (890419)
01-05-2022 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by drlove
01-05-2022 5:06 PM


Re: belief in the method
I am a Christian, but not a member of the Christian Cult of Ignorance.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by drlove, posted 01-05-2022 5:06 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by drlove, posted 01-05-2022 5:09 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 183 of 513 (890435)
01-05-2022 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by drlove
01-05-2022 5:09 PM


Re: belief in the method
DRL writes:
OK How does that work, if someone points out opposing views within science or reps of science they are cults?
It depends on whether or not they can support their assertions with a preponderance of evidence.
Anyone that deals in beliefs rather than actual evidence is a simply stupid.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by drlove, posted 01-05-2022 5:09 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by drlove, posted 01-05-2022 6:58 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 190 of 513 (890442)
01-05-2022 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by drlove
01-05-2022 6:58 PM


Re: belief in the method
drl writes:
In the OP case of the two doctors, each one claims support.
Claiming support is as worthless as testimony. It's shouting 'Lord Lord'.
What does the actual evidence say?
The Christian Cult of Ignorance are true Christians, just Christians that have chosen willful ignorance.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by drlove, posted 01-05-2022 6:58 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by drlove, posted 01-05-2022 7:11 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 192 of 513 (890444)
01-05-2022 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by drlove
01-05-2022 7:11 PM


Re: belief in the method
drl writes:
Says you. However the top science advisor in medical issues is considered to be the voice of science, and speaks as if he were. However worthless that is doesn't matter. You can have faith in either or neither. It is a matter of belief. The evidence says whatever the hired expert wants it to say!
And there is the voice of IGNORANCE, the voice that places SOURCE over content, FANTASY over reality and BELIEF over evidence.
Pathetic but typical of the Christian Cult of Ignorance Deceit and Dishonesty.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by drlove, posted 01-05-2022 7:11 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by drlove, posted 01-05-2022 7:17 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 194 of 513 (890446)
01-05-2022 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by drlove
01-05-2022 7:17 PM


Re: belief in the method
You can always simply click on peak mode to see what I actually said.
Correct. Science makes tentative conclusions, but ALL conclusions are subject to change when new evidence or techniques become available.
Edited by jar, : add second sentence

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by drlove, posted 01-05-2022 7:17 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by drlove, posted 01-05-2022 7:20 PM jar has replied

  
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