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Author Topic:   Anti-theist
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4613
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 316 of 465 (885734)
04-25-2021 6:06 AM
Reply to: Message 314 by Phat
04-21-2021 7:49 AM


Re: Long Strange Trips From Long Ago
Dude! I will not even quote your message!

Alcohol and grass is all I ever ingested in college. Never acid. At the time, I thought that my growth was stunted. One guy once described me as "the straightest guy he had ever known." At that time (circa 1970) that term had no sexual orientation connotation, but rather meant that I was no hippie freak.

In 1976 I enlisted in the US Air Force and underwent basic training. At that time, we were a mix of USAF Regulars (eg, me), Reserve, and Air National Guard. One of the latter two was a pudgy Jewish New Yorker. I know that because early on we had a stereotypical redneck TI (Training Instructor, like a DI only with a wide-brimmed blue cover). Early on, our TI assigned duties, including those in charge of marching recruits to Divine Services (yeah, we had to be marched almost everywhere). He made the assignments for marching the Protestants and then the Catholics. Then he asked if he had missed anybody else. This lone New Yorker raised his hand. "What else is there?", he thundered loudly. Meek response, "I'm Jewish."

I will forever love that response to typical Christian hubris.

That same recruit later shared with us about one New York City party where he was the "designated straight" at an LSD party including one or both of his parents having to make sure that nobody did anything physically dangerous to themselves. He talked about how tiresome it was to have to herd so many cats.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 314 by Phat, posted 04-21-2021 7:49 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 317 by Phat, posted 04-25-2021 7:09 AM dwise1 has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15392
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 317 of 465 (885735)
04-25-2021 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 316 by dwise1
04-25-2021 6:06 AM


Re: Long Strange Trips From Long Ago
Dude! I will not even quote your message!
I added to it another story.
dwise1 writes:

Alcohol and grass is all I ever ingested in college. Never acid.

Thats why you are dwise1 and I am dcrazy1 I dont think the 1-15 acid and mushroom trips I took ever had long term effects on my mental health today, but I doubt I could prove it in a court. The more questions they asked about my past and about my present beliefs, the more I would hurt my own case!

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by dwise1, posted 04-25-2021 6:06 AM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 326 by Tangle, posted 04-25-2021 11:58 AM Phat has not yet responded
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Phat
Member
Posts: 15392
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 318 of 465 (885736)
04-25-2021 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 315 by AZPaul3
04-25-2021 1:56 AM


Re: The Secular 10 Commandments
AZPaul3 writes:

Brothers and sisters, are you lost? Do you find no cosmic purpose to life? Do you feel helpless within yourself and are you seeking the comfort and guidance of a greater power?

Welcome to our Sundae Service.

I like the ice cream pun! Nice touch!

If comfort and guidance are what you seek then you will find them in family, both the family you are given and the extended family you gather around you. The only purpose in this universe is the purpose you give it. If you have love to give then give it to family. They need it more than the ghost.
I was about ready to poke fun and ridicule this statement. Then I reread it. And thought to myself how old AZPaul hit the nail on the head! The Ghost does not need love. He needs simply for us to love...each other. And the demons hate this. Of course they hate everything...even creamy chocolate sundaes. They are incapable of love but quite capable of seduction.

Now on to ole Hitch. *listens*

quote:
...it's
usually wise when promulgating eternal
laws to be clear about what you mean
Priceless.

Hitch writes:

(1) do not condemn people on the basis of their ethnicity or their color.
(2) do not ever even think of using people as private property or as owned or as slaves

(3) despise those who use violence or the threat of it in sexual relations

(4) hide your face and weep if you dare to harm a child

(5)do not condemn people for the inborn nature (why would God create so many homosexuals only in order to torture and destroy them?)
(6) be aware that you too are an animal and dependent on the web of nature try and think and act accordingly
(7) don't imagine that you can escape judgment if you rob people with a false prospectus rather than with a knife

(8)Turn off that cell phone! you can have no idea how unimportant your call is to us

(9) denounce all jihadists and Crusaders for what they are: psychopathic criminals with ugly delusions and terrible sexual repressions
(10)be willing to renounce any God or any faith if any holy Commandments should contradict any of the above.

in short, don't swallow your moral code in tablet form

Not bad! Hitch proves that God loves atheists.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 315 by AZPaul3, posted 04-25-2021 1:56 AM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
robertleva
Member
Posts: 35
From: Seminole
Joined: 04-23-2021


Message 319 of 465 (885738)
04-25-2021 8:25 AM


I am only replying to the OP. I find the need for a special post, intended to humiliate or harass people with a different belief set to be appalling. I am shocked and disappointed that this thread was allowed to produce so many pages of animosity. What is the purpose of this thread other that to foment discord?

I will pray for the OP that the love and peace of Jesus can come into their life, the way it has filled mine. When you finally do feel that love and peace, all you want to do is share it with everyone, especially non believers because we see your struggles that neednt be...


Replies to this message:
 Message 320 by jar, posted 04-25-2021 9:30 AM robertleva has responded
 Message 327 by AZPaul3, posted 04-25-2021 3:00 PM robertleva has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 320 of 465 (885739)
04-25-2021 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 319 by robertleva
04-25-2021 8:25 AM


No one is ridiculed for their beliefs but rather thinking beliefs are evidence of fact or reality itself is what is so ridiculous.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 319 by robertleva, posted 04-25-2021 8:25 AM robertleva has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 321 by robertleva, posted 04-25-2021 9:38 AM jar has responded

  
robertleva
Member
Posts: 35
From: Seminole
Joined: 04-23-2021


Message 321 of 465 (885740)
04-25-2021 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 320 by jar
04-25-2021 9:30 AM


Any excuse to humiliate followers of Christ (or any human being for any reason), whether they have blind faith or not, is appalling to me. I was one of the Christians that needed my logical and rational mind sated before my faith would grow.

I realize now, that the blind faith is the more powerful faith! My own, faith backed up by science is only needed because humans are so inured in false doctrine and so weak of spirit.

Regardless, I bear you no ill will. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ and I love you as He did. God bless, and you will be added to my prayers for peace and love.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 320 by jar, posted 04-25-2021 9:30 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 322 by jar, posted 04-25-2021 9:59 AM robertleva has responded
 Message 324 by nwr, posted 04-25-2021 10:54 AM robertleva has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33343
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 322 of 465 (885742)
04-25-2021 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 321 by robertleva
04-25-2021 9:38 AM


Don't bother.

I have been a Cradle Creedal Christian since before you were born, just not a member of the Christian Cult of *********.

AbE: if some words are blocked clicking on peek will open your eyes.

Edited by jar, : see AbE:


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by robertleva, posted 04-25-2021 9:38 AM robertleva has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 323 by Phat, posted 04-25-2021 10:31 AM jar has not yet responded
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Phat
Member
Posts: 15392
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 323 of 465 (885743)
04-25-2021 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 322 by jar
04-25-2021 9:59 AM


CCoI Writ Large
You and I almost agree on the good ship Club:Christian.

You seem to think the biggest obstacle is Ignorance.

I think that the biggest obstacle is Arrogance.

I would even go so far as to rename it the CCoA


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by jar, posted 04-25-2021 9:59 AM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 325 by ringo, posted 04-25-2021 11:26 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5715
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 6.1


(1)
Message 324 of 465 (885746)
04-25-2021 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 321 by robertleva
04-25-2021 9:38 AM


Any excuse to humiliate followers of Christ (or any human being for any reason), whether they have blind faith or not, is appalling to me.

I hope you can be just as critical of Christians who try to humiliate non-Christians. And I hope you are sufficiently unbiased to be aware that this is a very common practice.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by robertleva, posted 04-25-2021 9:38 AM robertleva has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19081
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 325 of 465 (885747)
04-25-2021 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 323 by Phat
04-25-2021 10:31 AM


Re: CCoI Writ Large
Phat writes:

I think that the biggest obstacle is Arrogance.


I agree. Arrogance (thinking you're infallible) is your biggest obstacle.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 323 by Phat, posted 04-25-2021 10:31 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8152
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 326 of 465 (885750)
04-25-2021 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 317 by Phat
04-25-2021 7:09 AM


Re: Long Strange Trips From Long Ago
Phat writes:

I dont think the 1-15 acid and mushroom trips I took ever had long term effects on my mental health today,

Maybe not, but they do cast a lot of light on the experience you said you had when you originally got convinced of this god stuff by seeing/talking to JC.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by Phat, posted 04-25-2021 7:09 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5838
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


Message 327 of 465 (885754)
04-25-2021 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 319 by robertleva
04-25-2021 8:25 AM


Reasons
First, robertleva, welcome to EVC. Always happy to see new members come out and play with us.

I find the need for a special post, intended to humiliate or harass people with a different belief set to be appalling. I am shocked and disappointed that this thread was allowed to produce so many pages of animosity.

You are allowed to be offended. You are allowed to voice that shock and disappointment.

So am I.

Religion has been nothing but shock and disappointment to humanity. Religion is a scourge that has burned a trail of blood across humanity for millennia. Christianity has been especially vile and violent as Islam has become today. We know the history of religions and we know the oppression of mind and spirit that is the hallmark of religion.

See my Message 16

Religion may have been a useful evolutionary step in the newly sentient mind of the primitive human, but it quickly become organized, a yoke of control over the minds and bodies of the population. Religion is still used today to foment violence against the heathen who has impure thoughts or crosses himself the wrong way.

Religion is violence. Religion perpetrates evil in the world and is an excuse to perpetrate evil in the world.

Religion is an artifact of the developing primitive mind newly capable of symbolic thought and is now, and has been for millennia, no more than chains of enslavement on the human mind and body.

Religion insists on majikal thinking, belief forced by violence, both physical and mental. It insists on blind belief against the face of reality and brings war against all that resist.

The animosity is real and well deserved. Religion has devastated humanity and, like all such evil, needs to be resisted, vilified, scorned and insulted at every turn.

Like slavery, racism and misogyny, all bulwarks of the evil that is religion, that need to be burned from the soul of society, religion, itself, in all forms, needs to be left in the ash bin of history along with all its evils. The species has long outlived its need for ignorant majikal thinking. Our very survival on this planet depends now on recognizing and dealing with the reality of this world.

The evil illogical fantasies and influence of religion need to end.

If you saw a great evil being done on the street would you not try to intervene? That is what this thread is here for.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 319 by robertleva, posted 04-25-2021 8:25 AM robertleva has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by Phat, posted 04-25-2021 3:41 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4613
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 328 of 465 (885755)
04-25-2021 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 317 by Phat
04-25-2021 7:09 AM


Re: Long Strange Trips From Long Ago
Thats why you are dwise1 and I am dcrazy1

Remember that one for the next time you need a screenname!

I don't know whether you have read the story of my name, but here it is again:

quote:
Over the years, most especially in on-line "creation/evolution" discussions, creationists have often engaged in personal attacks against me just because of my AOL screen name, "DWise1". In fact, one infamous professional creationist, Kent Hovind, went so far as to twice attempt (via email) to pick a fight with me over my screen name in order to avoid answering a very simple question about one of his claims, namely what his source was. I informed him that the story behind that name is really very mundane and has nothing to do with what he was railing against and I presented it to him.
So then why "DWise1"? Here is the story:

In every multi-user computer system, there are corporate policies for assigning user names. One common one is to append the first letter of the first name to the beginning of the first n letters of the last name (since there's always a limit to the length of the user name), adding numeric digits if the resultant user name has already been assigned. For example, one Dilbert comic depicted a "Brenda Utthead" complaining about the user name they had assigned her.
When I went to work at Hughes Aircraft in 1985, that was their policy, so my user name was "dwise". At the same time, they had bought some of the first Macs, non-networked floppy systems which we used to combine text and graphics in our presentation visuals. To identify my data floppy, I labelled it with my user name, "dwise". Then when I had filled that one and start on a second data diskette, I labeled that one "dwise2" and, for symmetry, I relabelled the first one, "dwise1". Then one day a co-worker read the label of the dwise1 diskette and started to laugh. I didn't get the joke until he told me to read it out loud; up until then I had not realized that it sounded like "The Wise One" and we all had a good laugh over the unintentional pun.

Then when I signed up for AOL several years later, in the middle of the sign-up process I suddenly had to think up a screen name. All I could think of was that accidental pun and so chose "DWise1" as my screen name.

Well, there you have the story. Nothing at all to it. And others have also chosen that name, albeit on other domains, of course -- in each domain there can be only one of any user name.


You never know when "dcrazy1" could come in handy! Keep that one handy in your hip pocket, ever ready to whip it out. It will serve you very well.

As you just saw, my own origin story is very mundane. But yours! Priceless!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by Phat, posted 04-25-2021 7:09 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15392
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 329 of 465 (885757)
04-25-2021 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 327 by AZPaul3
04-25-2021 3:00 PM


Re: Reasons
So much to argue against!
AZ writes:

Religion has been nothing but shock and disappointment to humanity.

Blanket statement and an appeal to popularity. There are numerous people who have benefitted from their spiritual walks. The problem which so many of you saw and hated was when religion (CCoI style) married politics back when Falwell Senior started the moral majority. And I suppose you could dredge up other examples from History...but for every one of them I could counter it with a positive event or events which helped the social order. In your specific case, I think you were one of those wired against being controlled.
Religion is a scourge that has burned a trail of blood across humanity for millennia.
Oh stop it. The atheistic Soviet Union was an equal if not worse example of a scourge.
Christianity has been especially (as) vile and violent as Islam has become today. We know the history of religions and we know the oppression of mind and spirit that is the hallmark of religion.
Though I agree that both Christianity and Islam have been vile and violent, I do not agree with your claim that Christianity causes oppression of mind and spirit. If anything, mind is renewed and spirit comes alive. I do realize, however, that you guys will bring up Christian avoidance schooling. So you do have a semi relevant point here....though not conclusive.

Religion may have been a useful evolutionary step in the newly sentient mind of the primitive human, but it quickly become organized, a yoke of control over the minds and bodies of the population. Religion is still used today to foment violence against the heathen who has impure thoughts or crosses himself the wrong way.

Religion is violence. Religion perpetrates evil in the world and is an excuse to perpetrate evil in the world.

The rants of an anti theist! You obviously see things differently than I do because you do not see God as a factor....only religion. Replace the word religion with Jesus in all of your rants and your argument falls apart.

Religion is an artifact of the developing primitive mind newly capable of symbolic thought and is now, and has been for millennia, no more than chains of enslavement on the human mind and body.
Quit fighting God. Of course we wont force Him on you, but we wont let you humanists force us into seeing nothing greater. We too have free will.

Religion insists on majikal thinking,
(true in most cases)
belief forced by violence, both physical and mental.
No. The violence will come because secularism will be pushed as mandatory. Freedom of religion will never be successfully suppressed.
It insists on blind belief against the face of reality and brings war against all that resist.
You and ringo do not get to define what judgements the thought police will enforce. atheism will never become the default option. There will be wars if you people insist on it.

The animosity is real and well deserved.
Put up your dukes old man. Lets settle this out back next to the sundial.Religion has devastated humanity and, like all such evil, needs to be resisted, vilified, scorned and insulted at every turn.

Like slavery, racism and misogyny, all bulwarks of the evil that is religion, that need to be burned from the soul of society, religion, itself, in all forms, needs to be left in the ash bin of history along with all its evils. The species has long outlived its need for ignorant majikal thinking. Our very survival on this planet depends now on recognizing and dealing with the reality of this world.
It will never happen. Prepare for the global fight. Too bad we are on opposite sides. I promise I wont shoot you...but Ocasio Cortez may get smacked a time or two.

First of all, religion is not the main problem. Human behavior is.
Second of all, Jesus created us long before we were even capable of making Him up. On that note (and claim) however, Jesus is about relationship rather than religion. And Christianity works best when the government does not claim to be Christian (and thus RWA Authoritarian). We have a unique set of problems here in the year 2021. Jesus wont simply solve them for society collectively. I will agree with my critics that WE must do it. I will defend belief in Jesus, however, in that I believe strongly that He (in Communion with our mind) will help us better than humans simply in consensus with each other. I know that you disagree strongly, but let me remind you of what you yourself have said:


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 327 by AZPaul3, posted 04-25-2021 3:00 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 330 by AZPaul3, posted 04-25-2021 4:17 PM Phat has not yet responded
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 Message 333 by ringo, posted 04-26-2021 11:16 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5838
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 330 of 465 (885764)
04-25-2021 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by Phat
04-25-2021 3:41 PM


Re: Reasons
Phat writes:

AZPaul3 writes:

Religion is a scourge that has burned a trail of blood across humanity for millennia.

Oh stop it. The atheistic Soviet Union was an equal if not worse example of a scourge.

So that's your reason to excuse the entire history of millennia of blood and death by religion, because someone else did something similar for a few years?

Should we forgive modern police murdering black people because the KKK did it first?

Why try to defend the violence that is religion? Are you trying to extend the bloodshed for longer?

Such excuses, tolerant acceptance of religious evil, are the very reasons religion must end just like the soviets.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by Phat, posted 04-25-2021 3:41 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
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